luka

Well-known member
you are an idiot. all 'i's are idiots. pathetic temporary gimcrack creatures. indie music is i music. martin amis writes i novels.
for example.
the only way to acheive anything of value is to become an avatar for something much larger.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
typical contorted logic of your Jimophobe
things have gotten serious I see

1st tbc not putting X on some pedestal. not even in my top 5 pre-hardcore L.A. punk bands. Los Angeles has a few pretty good songs. John Doe seems like a pretty cool guy. the lyrics aren't amazing, but they're fine, the whole thrift store artsy vibe hadn't yet been done to death. still they are 1 million times better than The Doors.

Jim Morrison's lyricism + poetry is the angsty bullshit a precocious 13 year old would spew forth + think profound. I mean ffs:
I'm getting out of here.
Where are you going?
To the other side of morning.
Please don't chase the clouds, pagodas.

Her cunt gripped him like a warm, friendly hand.

Lament for my cock
Sore and crucified
I seek to know you
Aquiring soulful wisdom
You can open walls of mystery
Stripshow

100% popular music, art in general is full of wannabe pseudo seers etc - what you all might call chancers - and for sure it is often a catalyst that's a factor in great art. otoh, plenty of the time assholes just also make terrible art. Jim Morrison isn't unique, but he is one of the absolute worst + greatest offenders. pretension is fine if you can live up to it, he completely cannot. he was a posh boy playing Beatnik. You know how sometimes people in their late teens or so will read Philip K. Deck novels and listen to Aesop Rock (or whatever the current equivalent is) and think it makes them smart? The Doors are like that but much, much worse.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
defend this please

L.A. Woman, L.A. Woman
L.A. Woman Sunday afternoon
L.A. Woman Sunday afternoon
L.A. Woman Sunday afternoon
Drive through your suburbs
Into your blues, into your blues, yeah
Into your blue-blue Blues
Into your blues, ohh, yeah
I see your hair is burnin'
Hills are filled with fire
If they say I never loved you
You know they are a liar
Drivin' down your freeways
Midnite alleys roam
Cops in cars, the topless bars
Never saw a woman...
So alone, so alone
So alone, so alone
Motel Money Murder Madness
Let's change the mood from glad to sadness
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
the Sisters of Mercy story is good - I'm sure there are many awesome 80s inside baseball (inside football I guess) British music critic stories - but I don't think it's a good comparison

yes, there is a ton of Morrison in Andrew Eldritch. clearly.

but, Eldritch is knowing. maybe not to his all fans, esp in the still pre-irony 80s, but clearly the man himself is on the camp etc on some level.

I love This Corrosion, Lucretia My Reflection, etc while clearly acknowledging their utter ridiculousness. The full-length video opus for This Corrosion, seriously.

80s British pop is full of that kinda thing tho. knowing camp. Soft Cell, FGTH, maybe even New Order in a more hetero way. etc.

If The Doors had some knowing element, it might be different. But no, just Jim Morrison Mr. Mojo Risin the Lizard King.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Feel like I'm trapped in some lunatic reverse poptimism bizarro reality where people make ludicrous message board rockist revisionist arguments on message boards
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
tbc nothing personal, if you - anyone - love the Doors and think Jim Morrison is the greatest poet ever, I disagree but more power to you.

but if we're going to have a Dissensus silver age surely we gotta bring back sharply opinionated overwrought ca. 2004 discussions, full of hyperbole + proclamations
 

john eden

male pale and stale
the Sisters of Mercy story is good - I'm sure there are many awesome 80s inside baseball (inside football I guess) British music critic stories - but I don't think it's a good comparison

yes, there is a ton of Morrison in Andrew Eldritch. clearly.

but, Eldritch is knowing. maybe not to his all fans, esp in the still pre-irony 80s, but clearly the man himself is on the camp etc on some level.

I love This Corrosion, Lucretia My Reflection, etc while clearly acknowledging their utter ridiculousness. The full-length video opus for This Corrosion, seriously.

What's interesting about Eldritch is that he did some insanely camp cover versions even in the early days. There were live versions of "Jolene" and Hot Chocolate's "Emma" and stuff like that as early as 1983.

The best goths always had a sense of their own ridiculousness but I think that often gets lost across time and geography. (Same as power electronics and industrial stuff - it's all grimly serious from about 1990 onwards bar the odd exception).
 

john eden

male pale and stale
David Keenan mentions discussing The Doors with some jap-psyche guy who was obsessed with Robby Krieger's guitar playing.

Apparently lots of them were after these knackered cassettes of The Doors circulated in the 80s cos you couldn't get the LPs. Keenan said it was really interesting because they weren't at all bothered about Morrison, it was like a whole parallel universe or something.
 

CrowleyHead

Well-known member
The Doors works when you realize Jim Morrison, for all his poetic affectations, wanted to try to sound like a white guy singing the blues, with full fundamental understanding of what that means. Not singing "My Baby Left Me" but rather "I'm going after prostitutes on the sunset strip..."

The despair isn't in the direct experience, but in the awareness of the situation. "This shit's SAD man"
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
nobody is fighting the doors corner on the basis of jim morrisons poetry
they are inseparable. you can't be for The Doors and not also be for Jim Morrison's poetry. it's like saying "no one is fighting grime's corner on the basis of the MC's".

+ not just poetry, his whole dumb looming personality. if you embrace The Doors, you embrace The Lizard King.

"occupying the pose" or whatever is just a workaround to avoid that fact.

I mean like I said, go with God. Just admit that you're defending Jim Morrison, visionary poet.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
The best goths always had a sense of their own ridiculousness but I think that often gets lost across time and geography
I've always thought this about black metal

Venom (camp shock rock) -> Bathory (mostly serious but still an 80s hesher) -> Norwegians burning down churches + murdering each other

or Penny Rimbaud, who has always said he mistakenly took The Sex Pistols at face value, completely not getting the layers of pop Situationism/Lydon irony

it seems to mostly manifest in rock + rock-derived (i.e., white) musics, tho see also the evolution of gangster rap as a counter-example
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
this is also one of the several reasons why I thankfully always found neofolk + all that other self-important post-industrial music a total non-starter
 

luka

Well-known member
jim morrison is centre stage but the poetry isnt. there are some songs(the crystal ship i quoted from earlier) where it's getting in the way, but not many.
 

luka

Well-known member
it's rapidly becoming clear that you have never heard a doors record. you should check em out. cool band.
 
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