The wave function

turtles

in the sea
Must.. resist.. urge to engage... with misuse of terminology!
Urge succumbed to! :)

Firstly, in what way does the future exist now? infinite possibilities for the future exist now, this is true, but not the future itself, that's kind of the definition of the term "now". And though over the entire course of time, we obviously spend a lot more time dead than alive, at present, we are wholly alive.

Second, wave functions only have practical significance at the nano level or at extremely high energy levels (ie, the speed of light) which beings of such high mass as ourselves will essentially never achieve. Consequently, it is only in extremely contrived situations such as Schrodinger's cat box that macro-level entities can become so strongly affected by an individual particle's waveform (in this case, the cat being both alive and dead)...I just spent an enjoyable half-hour reading the rather excellent wikipedia article on Schrodinger's cat. Fave line: "...since "observation" has been shown by experiment to have nothing to do with consciousness - or at the very least, any traditional definition of consciousness - most conjecture along these lines probably falls under the "interesting but physically irrelevant" category." ha!

General point though (and they talk about this in that article too), is that all the quantum wave function effects are really only interesting at the quantum level, and so don't really play that large a role in our own conscious experience of the world, except in a few very specific situations.



lastly, undisputed, have you read Greg Egan's Permutation City? I think you'd like it, it plays with some similar ideas, the infinite variety of universes possibly in existence and how the mind could exist/play within them...
 

enneff

Andrew
lastly, undisputed, have you read Greg Egan's Permutation City? I think you'd like it, it plays with some similar ideas, the infinite variety of universes possibly in existence and how the mind could exist/play within them...
Greg Egan is the man. His work is some of the most provocative SF I've read (along with PKD of course).
 
Urge succumbed to! :)


have you read Greg Egan's Permutation City?

No, I'll hunt it down and read it, cheers.

What prompted this post was the notion of things not being present, time out of joint, ghosts, particularly in the machine and memories of the future now. All bound up in the films of Alex Proyas. The Crow, Dark city and I robot. It was while watching Dark city again that i figured using machines to expand the wave function with the collective consciousness to stop time, rewind it and recreate present is probable.

As soon as someone proves consciousness exists at the quantum level we can get on with the business of effecting the 4d construct. Thought powered nanomachines anybody ?

Our future doesn't exist yet. Nothing does, but an extrapolation of choices and choices not made at every moment in time recreates presents in other universes. In some of those, what will happen to us is happening now or has happened. The point is, everything is NOW and you are here.

If the fundamental particles which constitute us flicker at superluminal speed between existence and non existence as defined by the 4d construct. We are equally as much dead as alive but more so dead given that we are but one universe of many in infinte time.
Assuming of course our particular conscious entity transcends the multiverse.

I read Alex Proyas has had a film in the making for a while called The Knowing. It's about predictions of the future that came true and a particularly nasty one which hasn't. The trick then is to stop it but can you ?
 

Troy

31 Seconds
How can anything have no cause and no effect? There is only one possible future and it is as set in stone as the past.
 
Troy said:
How can anything have no cause and no effect?

don't know what you mean here maybe you can rephrase ?

There is no physical future or past. Everything is happening now and now and now and now. The present is in a constant state of recreating itself at faster than light speed using the same particles, but for every action chosen and taken there is an equal and oppsite in another universe. The past is a memory and deja vu could be a glimpse of a future probablity or a transdimensional leak where it is happening now but wont happen in this universe for a while. I wonder if there is a unit of consciousness, a thought particle ?

On another tnagent though. If ghosts are no longer governed by earthly pressures of class, race, prejudice, hunger shelter etc then their notion of selfhood would be so far removed from the person they used to be in 4d.

Someone should do an interview with one.
 

ome

Well-known member
Was chatting to a guy I've met who used to be into the acid house scene in the UK. At some of the parties he went to there would be thousands of people and they would white-out together. Seems like a big part of where the spiritual idealism/naivete of the rave scene came from?
Being part of a similar scene time before - we all worked towards cataylsing that change on the dancefloor - Pressure Drop - the music / lights / decor / droping from same source at the same time. Often people spiced up the show, interpreting it, going numinious or ego-naked on peak. This often resulted in having too restrain casulties in the afternoon light, and by then it felt a bit like losing the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, or having held beauty with dirty hands. Although that didnt stop us chasing after it to 'know' if 'it' would happen next time...
In collapsing, the wave affect other waves inducing them to collapse or combine to form bigger waves.
Does observing as a knowlegable witness, rather than an reacting interpreter maintain the collapsed wave and 'Everything is now and You are here' expeirence?

here's a video made by my little cus'. Its all about "it" and its "is'nis":
www.theremembering.co.uk/
--
0me
 
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Your cus is on it. Liked that a lot. Love the cyclicity of it. Remembering, forgetting just so you can remember again. One time he'll remember without the drugs but the cycle will still continue cos you can't handle knowing all the time so you have to take the drugs to forget just so you can remember again when you're straight. Red pill or blue pill ?

ome said:
Does observing as a knowlegable witness, rather than an reacting interpreter maintain the collapsed wave and 'Everything is now and You are here' expeirence?

It doesnt with me cos we are always trapped in the medium. Maybe with a critical mass of knowing observers it can... ie more people collapsing their waves simultanouesly with conscious effort tuned to effect the 4d continuum like the ballheads in Dark city and amplified by a cunning bit of kit. One person on their own cant do much unless you're Neo or John Murdoch or Muad'dib from Dune.
 
Came across this guy, F David Peat and thought he resonates quite nicely with a lot of stuff on here.

Non-locality in Nature and Cognition

David Bohm and his co-workers have demonstrated how it is possible to develop a quantum physics of non-separability using an underlying local mathematics. Bohm's curious quantum potential is determined by the wave function for the whole system, ideally by the wave function for the entire universe. It acts on a quantum particle in such a way that its effect is not determined by the size of the potential but rather by its form. But this means that distant objects can still exert a strong effect on the particle--in essence the motion of the particle is determined by the whole experimental situation including the orientations of quite distant objects.

In this sense the behavior of each part of the system is determined by the whole...


his whole site and other essays are worth checking out too like this one

Time, Synchronicity and Evolution

It is the condition of life in a modern, industrial world that we so often experience a sense of isolation and dislocation from the natural world and those around us. If we ask for meaning we are told that meaning has become a relative thing, an affliction of post-modernism. And, should we turn to science for comfort, it is to be told that life is no more than an accident spawned on a planet orbiting a relatively unimportant star within a contingent and meaningless universe....

I suppose he'd qualify as a digital mystic.
 

luka

Well-known member
Urge succumbed to! :)

Firstly, in what way does the future exist now? infinite possibilities for the future exist now, this is true, but not the future itself, that's kind of the definition of the term "now". And though over the entire course of time, we obviously spend a lot more time dead than alive, at present, we are wholly alive.

Second, wave functions only have practical significance at the nano level or at extremely high energy levels (ie, the speed of light) which beings of such high mass as ourselves will essentially never achieve. Consequently, it is only in extremely contrived situations such as Schrodinger's cat box that macro-level entities can become so strongly affected by an individual particle's waveform (in this case, the cat being both alive and dead)...I just spent an enjoyable half-hour reading the rather excellent wikipedia article on Schrodinger's cat. Fave line: "...since "observation" has been shown by experiment to have nothing to do with consciousness - or at the very least, any traditional definition of consciousness - most conjecture along these lines probably falls under the "interesting but physically irrelevant" category." ha!

General point though (and they talk about this in that article too), is that all the quantum wave function effects are really only interesting at the quantum level, and so don't really play that large a role in our own conscious experience of the world, except in a few very specific situations.



lastly, undisputed, have you read Greg Egan's Permutation City? I think you'd like it, it plays with some similar ideas, the infinite variety of universes possibly in existence and how the mind could exist/play within them...

always fun when someone who hasnt got a clue slips on someone elses mashed trip ejaculate and tries to set them straight. no, youve got the science a ittle wrong, this wont do. terminology matters. if you really want to set your brain on fire you should read this great sci-fi paperback by greg egan. now thats a trip.
 
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