john eden
male pale and stale
You have no actual first hand experience of it, then?
I found book about old magick and here is some occult pictures
- Thread starter toccowich
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You have no actual first hand experience of it, then?
No i never suggested that i did but it does not surprise me in the slightest to hear that these things go on. It is very similiar to any establishment that i have ever known. You may understand it as a phenomenon called 'conservetism'...
I'm sure you have had your own experiences with it...Siegel describes it as the act of being 'addicted to belief'. For me this simply means fear - people have fear of the unknown and fear that their reality is not THE reality. I could see quite easily how any establishmentarian would, by a new discovery such as scientific evidence of paranormal activity like that which is discussed in books such as The Holographic Universe and The Field, be thrown into the darkest depths of existential fear. This is the nature of the human.
Well, nowell - yeah...
In your body there is trillions of subatomic particles and cells, there are bones, blood, lymph etc and a series of vital organs. There are infinite thoughts and feelings, memories and incites and all the other elements that make you. Yet - there is One you - isn't there?
There is a singular consciousness that is you. The same can be posited with a crowd of people, a forest eco-system, the earth, a galaxy and the entire Cosmos as a singular consciousness. At the highest level there is pure consciousness - this is God
. Why "One" me? I am a different person on this forum than with different friends, relations, lovers, colleagues, pets, my skin lice and digestive flora, in my head, in my dreams, drunk, on an operating table, driving a car, filing tax returns... I am a temporarily enduring collection of bio-physical-conscious-unconscious-socio-political processes, and like you say a forest eco-system, crowd, cosmos is similar. In fact I am an eco-system, a crowd, a cosmos...But where does the "One singular consciousness" come from? And what is the highest level - why posit a transcendent level "above" the cosmos? One thing I love about Deleuze & Guattari is their inversion of this cosmic-Zen intuition in their "plane of immanence" concept, which retains cosmic elements, but in a materialism of multiplicity, which jettisons the spiritual/transcendence/God/ego. And I don't accept this just because they say it cleverly; their exposition of it chimes with my own intuition.
john eden
male pale and stale
That sounds like stereotyping, which I had not thought was the domain of the enlightened.
Well, no
I'm sure you've heard the concept that your physical body reproduces itself every 7 years yet you fundamentally remain the same person. This turns into the Soul debate - I cannot speak for you - but I Know that I am an essence beyond my body, mind, emotions and memories and I have always remained the same - although simultaneously I am all these things. Every spiritual discpline speaks of this (hence 'spiritual'). The fact that there are different ASPECTS of you explains the 330,000,000 million gods thing - they are all aspects of the One.
Oh yes - you all these things and more! haha
Modern quantum physics has proven beyond a doubt the maleability of time and physical matter - in fact they have a model of 11 dimensions and suggest there are more. When i say 'above' i am not saying this in the sense of a heirarchy, only in the sense that at the 'highest' dimension there perhaps exists the energetic Source of this Universe. That is the 'Supreme' or the 'Point of Light' - 'Ishwara' as opposed to 'Brahman' in the Hindu scriptures, or the 'Wu Chi' as opposes to the 'Tao' in the Taoist scriptures.
Remember these are realms of reality beyond the thinking mind, and thus cannot really be comprehended by the mind, only directly experienced. But that doesn't really fit with the scathing intellectual critique of the western schizoid mind, does it? I can't comment on the Plane of Immanence because i don't know it yet. But i'll get back to you soon...
Pure consciousness. haha
Not stereotyping, i'm not judging anyone, merely using what i've heard as an example.Interesting projection and assumption you have made, as i had never posited that i was enlightened. To me this again represents the 'atheist' assumption that once one understands God on an intellectual level then the journey is over and they are enlightened. My understanding differs slightly from most of the worlds population because it is based around knowledge and not blind faith - yet, the fear from the destructive skeptical individuals usually includes the notion that once they have it figured out then they will have to do something about it, which includes life changes etc as i explained before. After all - you don't want to be one of those nerdy Christian idiots, do you? There you have it - your egoic illusion-of-self struggles to align itself with things that you Know to be True...
In case you hadn't consciously realised - you probably have a massively emotional resistance to the idea that there 'is a God' because of the systematic raping of spirituality and truth by the Christian church over the last 2000 years. It took me a long time to clear away all the emotional resistance i had to the idea of 'God' because I simply didn't want to associate myself to the 'style' of the idea of 'God'. The word God is dead, as the Reality of What Is is so far removed from the stigma of the word 'God' that one can posit that the consciousness of the everyday human is completely schizophrenic - split, contradictory - like a computer stuffed with conflicting data causing it to crash.
Even now, after months-years of knowing that the words 'God' and 'Universe' mean the same thing, and that the concept of 'staying close to Great Spirit' or 'sticking to the truth' is the same as 'being One with God', every time i hear or think of the word, it still rings in my ear as Christian clap-trap. Don't panic! Its the mind trying to align itself...
Grievous Angel
Beast of Burden
Most theologians would point out quite significant differences between these religions, even within the religions themselves, on these matters.
To ellide the differences between them and merge them into a somewhat bland, apparently new age "everything is one and there is only one fundamental experience of deity" is pretty patronising to the people who practice those religions. Equally importantly it amounts to a dismissal of cultural identity.
For example, even Judaeo-Christian spirituality has a vast range of experiences and descriptions of a single deity. To assert that these are the same theologically and experientially as, say, Brahma, is simply ignorant. And, ummm... it makes you sound really condescending.
But feel free to carry on digging.
john eden
male pale and stale
I am not sure that stereotyping implies a judgement. However you have reached a conclusion about a group of unamed scientists based on hearsay. Perhaps you would like to reflect on that rather than projecting some idea of fear onto me, or indeed instead of assuming that our experiences have been entirely different.
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COTB, I don't think you've really addressed my questions as to where your One singular consciousness concept come from - "you remain One person" - kinda, sorta, ignoring my previous point that I am a multiplicity of biology, physics, un/consciousness, socio-political criss-crossings etc. Why insist that it's "One", and why should that lead to a God/source-of-the-universe? What is "pure consciousness"?
So it's not 'above', but is the Source that "perhaps exists" (hmmm) at the highest dimension - semantics aside this seems to be exactly that transcendent/God principle I was talking about. I guess if you want to abstract it a bit and call it energy-matter-light as the material base rather than super-structure of reality, then we might not be arguing, but your Source still smacks of traditional God-faith to me (well, maybe without the Old Testament robes, speaking from the clouds trick, etc ;-).
Only the most fundamentalist (ie stupid) of religious people would suggest that their God is superior to another religions. In fact, Hindu people refer to 'God' when they are speaking in English, and it is common understanding amongst these people that there is only one God and that all peoples have their own understanding - the Tibetan Buddhist, upon meeting someone foreign, traditionally asks 'to what ancient and venerable tradition, do you hail from?'. The British occupation of India produced some very interesting occurences when Christianity met with Hinduism - just read the writings of any 20th Indian Saint - Yogananda, Vivekananda, Ramana Maharshi etc etc - they all say the same thing.
I challenge you in your assertion re: 'most theologians' and your notion that it is patronising to suggest to a Qabbalist Jew that the Tetragrammaton is the same as the Taoist Yin-Yang supreme polarity is ridiculous - this is simply not true and suggests to me an igorant basis of understanding these traditions.
As for cultural identity - of course religious leaders embrace there tradition and cultural identity in full knowledge that there is one God and that all religions and cultures have been on to the same thing. Why wouldn't they?
The fact that your brain is struggling to comprehend and/or accept this by mocking the 'blandness' of 'Oneness', is somewhat amusing
bassnation
the abyss
this statement, plus the whole hippy dippy acid thing tells me all i need to know.
You are a multiplicity of biology, physics, un/consciousness, socio-political criss-crossings, no doubt - but there is always a fundamental essence of you that continues on - beyond the dimensions of space and time. Ooooh, sorry it just got too cheesy for your limited style-driven mind.
If you want to understand what pure consciousness is:
1. put the name of every esoteric tradition the world over (that includes indigenous traditions from every continent) onto different pieces of paper and place them into a hat.
2. randomly pull one out.
3. locate a veritable authority on the tradition you have chosen, seek them out and ask them what their tradition says about consciousness and the nature of the Self.
4. Once you have your answer - go back to the hat and pull another one out
5. Repeat steps 1-4 until you are done
You will find that, transgressing the non-absolute of style, transgressing cultural symbols (ie straight to the truth) they are all fundamentally the same. Oops! Sorry, once again - just got too cheesy for you.
Who cares about truth, when you can have style!!
john eden
male pale and stale
bassnation
the abyss
haha - what a hilariously ignorant thing to say!
coming from a Bi-Polar sufferer (myself!) i can tell you that western medication is a tool for numbing the consciousness. This is fine, unless you are interested in the search for truth that all beings eventually and inevitably choose. You seemingly possess no knowledge of these things, hence your ignorant suggestion that medication is the answer.
funnily enough i know bipolar sufferers, plus someone who is a paranoid schizophrenic - and the medication works for them.
i don't mind people believing in whatever nonsense gets them through the night but when people start spreading disinformation on medical conditions on the net, it pisses me off. this is comparable to the "aids is a conspiracy" thread, just total fucking nonsense.
and its a big assumption you make on what i have and haven't read and what i believe in. my parents were hippies and i read shite like lsd and the search for god before you were even a twinkle in your dads eye. don't confuse skeptisism with ignorance.
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That was a bit condescending and sarcastic in return wasn't it? COTB is just explaining his beliefs/theories about what religion is, not making judgements about individuals or cultures... there's no cultural disrespect involved if he thinks they come from a common source of belief in One consciousness or whatever.
haha - guess what - ignorance causes disagreement!
john eden
male pale and stale
He's quite clearly making judgements about people on this board.
bassnation
the abyss
Your avatar tells me everything about your mental and emotional stability also....
yah boo sucks to you too. seriously though, lay off the drugs.
yeah - and sorry in advance for those suggestions that you have a style-driven mind - the comment was meant more as a statement on the nature of style as a way of life and how it deeply effects and veils people's understanding of reality - arguments like this being like 100% A+ territory for a observation of which....
And yeah - ultimately i'm making this statement due to overwhelming (and i really do mean overwhelming) evidence that supports this. Right now, the leaders of almost every major tradition (excluding, of course, the blatantly obvious facisto fundamentalist ones) are uniting under a common understanding.
Like seriously - When Jesus, Buddha and Lao Tzu talked about the Unity of all things, do you seriously think they were contradicting eachother?
Do you think that the essential teachings of these figures contradicts in any way?
Do you think that their teachings contradict the latest advancements in physics?
And my favourite one of all:
Do you think that if you understand Jesus or Buddha - that you even for a second need to be a 'Christian' or a 'Buddhist'?