Beer And Beer Drinking

[luka]

bloody hell, this thread ia a runaway train, scary beer knowledge.

have to pull scott up on one thing though, london is the worst place in the world to drink, without a shadow of a doubt. overpriced, everything shuts early, full of lairy twats who can't handle their liquor, really really disgraceful considering the status of the city and that, how big it is and how cosmopolitan and sophisticated it pretends to be.

i've never found a good place to drink post-11pm in london. if you know anywhere, share your knowledge.

(if its full of posers i'm not going, we're thinking low-key, good selction of spirits, proper brandy and proper rum, reasonable prices, be good if it was fairly dark with nice music not played too loud, no pricks, pretty girls... who knows anywhere like that?)

[scottdisco]

fldsfslmn (ta i'll read the new article later) :
>The article I referenced was actually the wrong one (sorry!).

yeah poking around that guy, you can tell his writing is in thrall to your local Tories, but i was still fascinated by the little regionalist digs and whatnot!
the 'proper' article sounds quite good and investigative.

interesting that Edmonton has no brewery of yet. isn't it fair to say, in general, Edmonton/Calgary have that whole Melbourne/Sydney, Manchester/Liverpool love-hate-hate thing going on?
i take it you don't rate Maverick then?



i'd deffo give Grasshopper a try (that's cause i'll literally drink anything, honestly) but it sounds like you're not too convinced yourself, so thanks for the head up (i have only ever had the big boys in terms of Canadian beer, which is a big blind spot).

>Oh, and I should mention that the best beer in Canada doesn't leave the province of Québec.

haha!
i know guys in even Melbourne who say the same for Aussie beer if you substitute Adelaide for Quebec (the Coopers stable, of course: shout to Jon Dale etc.)
actually i've been finding out a little about some Quebecois beer recently, more on that later.

bipedaldave (cheers for the geography lesson btw ):
>There's actually a fairly large selection of the german/belgian/continental europe beers here, in fact far greater than the selection of english >beers (i haven't heard of/tasted many of the beers mentioned here). but yeah, stella, warsteiner, grolsh, pilsner urquell, (plus the obvious >becks & heineken and bunch of other stuff), all very common here. a 4 pack of warsteiner tall boys is actually cheaper than a six pack of >canadian oddly enough...

yeah one thing that is at least decent about north American shops is you can at least get Pilsner Urquell, Staropramen, Warsteiner, Paulaner stuff, quite easily. and a wide selection of Mexican beer. just spare me the Coors, the Molson, the Michelob, the Miller, the Killians, y'know...

the Trader Joe's (second chichest supermarket round these parts) i've been to in Chicago sells Staropramen, a decent selection of Yank micros, Duvel, and one or two other half-decent beers such as Warsteiner or Boddies. so that's not too bad. i may have a report from the local Whole Foods (THE posh 'Euro'/organic supermarket AFAIK) soon enough, which i'm assuming is best for beer.
the supermarket my Chicagoan girl usually goes to (the bog standard one, the Osco/Jewel chain) has a lot of shit American beer, some Goose Island stuff (a decent Chicago brewery), Guinness, Bass, Pilsner Urquell, those stupid stubbies of Newkie Brown (i don't think i've ever seen a proper Broon bottle, in size terms, in the USA, but there again i've never drunk in the Pacific Northwest or on the east coast to be fair), Red Stripe stubbies, Stella, and that's about it. so not disastrous, but certainly nowhere near as good as its bog-standard British equivalent (either in terms of global beers, or actually good produce from its own country).

Granville Island sounds great.

>There's actually a fairly large selection of the german/belgian/continental europe beers here, in fact far greater than the selection of english >beers (i haven't heard of/tasted many of the beers mentioned here).

on the second part of this formulation, you really are missing a treat on this score...

>though i think getting comments for "double-fisting" (perhaps that's what said?) definitely has at least something to do with the midwest. 3 >pints/hour seem entirely reasonable to me...but then i'm rather biased towards drinking...

come to think of it, i think it's a rural (Brit weirdo w' silly accent) thing, perhaps. yeah. the rural Midwest can be an 'interesting' place...
it's not like i've ever had any sniffy remarks about drinking, say, three Guinness and a Harp in 45 minutes in Chicago (when in a bit of a hurry to sample the fish fry special, say).

egg:
>in fact a lot of northerners are forced to move here when coming south due to the fact that your northern 'pound' doesn't seem to go as far >round ere

tell me about it mate

round my way (and this is one of the posh bits of southwest Mcr, south Trafford, few miles south of United's ground, practically shading into the infamous Cheshire Set/stockbroker belt area) i can sup all night on world-class beers and the like and be all '4 pints and a packet of peanuts for a tad under a fiver you say, my good man?'
obviously there are plenty of places where London prices are in effect (certainly much of the city centre these days, although town does have a great mix of diverse bars and pubs FWIW - it's great for drinking, he says, blowing his own regionalist trumpet...)

there's always much talk of where you can get hold of such and such for a "solitary coin" and the like

>ah but shandy bass, surely....

why didn't you say!

>which reminds me - although i have little time for lager - that drinking heineken on amsterdam campsites is good.

without sounding like a ruffian or something, i'm enjoying that more since they upped the alcoholic strength.
and Joe Liotta for the ad campaign was inspired.

[scottdisco]

matt b:
>bitter has to be properly looked after and cask conditioned to be nice. round here (leeds) tetley's, black sheep and old peculiar are favs.

Black Sheep is awesome stuff. believe it or not, there are plenty of places the other side of the hills where the Tetley's is kept very well indeed.
although the best Old Peculier i've ever had was down in Cambridge, just the other week,
weird.
matt, what's that bourbon bar type place in town please, in Leeds? a mate told me about it, i've never been, American bar style, sez it's good.
i don't go to Leeds often enough, Beckett's Bank (or whatever it's called) near the station is one of the nicer Wetherspoons anywhere (alright, maybe not saying much but you know what to expect...).

i have GOT to get me to Hi-Lo's.

stevienixed:
>i find it quite funny americans speak so highly of stella artois as it's considered to be a very common/lo quality beer in my country. the best >pub is in bruges: they have a couple of hundred belgian brewed beers. further down there's a jenever bar. hmmmmm

so you think the Americans rate Stella highly too? yeah, it's the impression i get.
i found a nice little website written by a bloke in Chicago, doing a guide to the best bars.
but he has a sub-site there listing everywhere you can get Stella.
maybe it is a case of - relatively speaking because let's be frank i'm afraid i'd have to plump for Stella over Bud or Pabst or MGD or O'Douls or Old Style or whatever - 'beggars can't be choosers' (there i go again, being a Euro-booster snob about the USA, soz)?

i did read an opinion on the very helpful Beer Advocate site [http://www.beeradvocate.com] that Hopleaf on the northside of Chicago (i've still not been but intend to do so soon) has the second best Belgian beer menu in the USA, after Williamsburg's Spuyten Duyvil.
more on Hopleaf here, FWIW
http://www.chicagobarproject.com/Rev...af/Hopleaf.htm
and a little on the Brooklyn bar
http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/food/openings/n_9368/ (shipping in perry's from England is quite impressive)

so you'd rate Bruges above the capital for bars?
i must say, the one time i went to Bruges, i fell in love with the place instantly.
i have heard of A La Becasse in Brussels, the Delirium bar in Brussels (a website says "Boasting 1000 beers it is definately worth a visit and is situated on the Impasse De La Fidélité" - i'm not sure if that number is a typo or what but i want to believe! - oh and the same website mentions that 'La Belgica', a bar on the Algarve, of all places, has a wicked Belgian beer menu).

one of my local Belgian bars back in England - which is a very very good one, to be fair, (12 draught, over a hundred bottles w' rotated stock changes/guests, long menu, all Belgian; sadly they don't offer the Flemish stew anymore as since they extended the bar area or something they stopped the food) has a funny quote on its website where it says "No draft Leffe Blonde, Hoegaarden or the 'S' word guaranteed."
snobby perhaps, but it makes me chuckle.
i think the best Belgian bar in Manchester, if anyone is interested, is quite possibly one called Bar Fringe in the city centre's Northern Quarter. worth a visit if you're ever in the area, it's near the Band on the Wall club (which is currently closed for a refurb, alas).
what is the best one in London then?
they have that moules-marinade/booze chain down south don't they? Belgo or something? never been in one myself, are they any good?

Rambler:
>Best if you go over to Suffolk to drink it; most London pubs ruin any decent beer cos they don't clean their pipes

i have had very nice Adnams in Norfolk but that is next door. i've never drank in Suffolk, i really want to go to Southwold and sup Tally Ho all night.

as for Stella, i know skinny little female friends who over the course of a night will sink ten, eleven pints of the stuff, along with a load of flaming sambucas and the like, and be essentially fine.
however, blokes the land over (perhaps it's a Mike Skinner anxiety of influence thing...) invariably get lairy and/or silly after five...
sorry hope that doesn't sound sexist, but all from observation.

fair play to Luka for pulling me up, but i've been in enough very good London pubs to know that there is sheer quality there. i mean, during the day and everything, i'll have to defer to your gloomy assessment of the night-time scene (it's even worse in the provinces, of course).
i must admit a lot of my old uni mates who are scattered all around the country these days, a lot of them seem to say they prefer the likes of Mcr and Brum to drinking than the Smoke (the compactness is handy, for a start).
i just think that's being churlish.
i love all the big regional cities in England for drinking that's for sure (and out of the smaller ones, i like Nottingham, Cambridge, Norwich, and the like a lot; also you gotta give it up to York and yes believe it or not Hull), but i'd rather have some money and a Tube pass and a free weekday in London than anything.

i dunno.

what do London-based northerners like Rambler or silverdollar think to this question?
i'm extremely intrigued by it.

oh sufi (if you read this far...), is rewch from Stockport or something? you mentioned old tom tales...

i want to pick the brains of our Canuck drinkers later on, so may post later about Canadian beer.

[Rambler]

i've never drank in Suffolk, i really want to go to Southwold and sup Tally Ho all night.

Southwold's a bit of a beer pilgrimage, yeah. There are one or two nice places up the river, you get to walk back along the beach, past all the fishing huts selling fresh sole.

[Rambler]

Well, my Northern nightlife knowledge only extends to Carlisle (which I don't recommend under any circs), and Nottingham, which used to be really good a few years back, don't know what it's like these days. Lots more wanky winebars I think.

[scottdisco]

well i can't speak for Carlisle (is everyone you know up there alright, what with those floods?), but Barrow is not ideal.

Nottingham has a good mix of folkie pubs (there's one whose name escapes me my brother speaks highly of - he knows the town well) and of course it's got the Old Trip.
also its 'trendy' bar scene is supposed to be more palatable than many other places.

and the Social is supposed to be nice.

i think you could very well make a case for Notts being the nicest mid-sized drinking city in England (maybe Bristol too, i've got a mate who speaks highly of there, and like Nottingham due to the large enough population of folk w' W. Indian heritage, enough decent blues nights, etc. - same mate in Bristol once saw Johnny Clarke throw down in St Pauls 'til six in the morning at this one bar, my mate just caning Red Stripe and weed all night)

[luka]

might just be a misanthropic thing on my part. don't like people, specially not loud people, makes me uncomfortable. bars you can hide in, thats what i want, dark, with booths, and quiet pretty people.

[Rambler]

>Scott - yeah, my parents didn't have power or telephone for a day or so. They're a few miles out of town, so not near the floods, but loads of powerlines were hit and the sub stations all got flooded obv. Sounds really bad in the city - there's only one road in open at the moment, and because it's so flat in the city centre loads of it got flooded.

Back to thread...

bars you can hide in, thats what i want, dark, with booths, and quiet pretty people.

Snugs - Britain's contribution to world booze culture. That and darts. None of your continental, open plan drink establishments.

[scottdisco]

glad to hear, Tim, that your folks are at least sounding like they're getting through it - was shocked stunned and depressed when heard the news - (i owe you an email, i find!) so yeah.

on-thread, Southwold sounds divine

i think they are one of the finest British breweries.

does anyone think my Britain does second best beer overall claim is me being blindsided, or is there something to it (what, i'm anally categorising inna list fashion...)?

i think the big European boys and whatnot are great, and i mean they take it so seriously and academically in Germany and the Czechs and Dutch for two have such quality and you can get so many great beers from countries like Poland and Russia but i just think the breadth and quality of great British cask is something to get truly excited about.

i feel so so sorry for drinkers in the USA or Canada or Down Under who have reasonable facsimilies of, say, decent enough European lagers to hand, because bottom fermenters seem to travel better, but - as mentioned before - whenever i've had Bass in the USA it's been simply awful (same for Boddies, although in one Irish pub once i did once have an OK Guinness - i had two alright Guinness the other day, i mean, not British let alone Dublin/Lagos standard - tho' i do wonder what the standard of Guinness in the best Irish boozers in Boston, New York, and Chicago must be like).

there's an interesting quote from some old brewer (Peter Austin, bit of a leg all told for his 'grandfather of microbrewing status' in both his native England and in the New World) that goes you shouldn't sell beer farther from the door of your brewery than a horse can walk in a day.
obviously nonsense in today's world, and quite glad about it - i think the longest journey Boddington's makes, for instance - is a SIX-WEEK boat journey from Britain to its New Zealand market.

but what with bipedaldave said earlier about not being familiar with a lot of good British beer, it just resonated.
cause you just can't get cask elsewhere and it really is Britain for cask-conditioned ale, Bruges for beer, France for wine or whatever, and so er yeah i'll stop ranting now...

[scottdisco]

me:
>i feel so so sorry for drinkers in the USA or Canada or Down Under...

*ahem*
i think in future i'll try and keep things in perspective...

[scottdisco]

esp. when NZ and Aus and Canada and the USA all produce so many fine beers...

though not as good as Britain, obviously!

[carlos]

i work right above an "english pub" - i mostly drink Bass there. only when the office is paying though- $6 a glass

mostly i drink the local "indie" beer : Shiner. i like it (especially with food) but i'm no beer expert

but i think i drink vodka much more more than beer- which surely isn't a good thing (?)

[turtles]

Yeah I gotta say I essentially never drink English beers, I'm really not even clear on what a bitter is, and I do drink quite a lot of beer. You never see english beers on tap here, though you do see guiness and kilkenny occaisionally. Selection wise, you can get bass, boddingtons and...i dunno, maybe one or two others occaisionally, i can't think of their names, but it's pretty slim. Pitty me if you wish, but I have found no lack of other beers to drink.

Also on the stella "fear" i have never heard here of any bad reputation for people getting really smashed/terribly hung over on stella, nor differences between the sexes with stella. it's really interesting just how differently it's seen here and in europe. i think at least some of these effects must be socially created due to the beer's reputation (rather than a specific property of the beer). though how the beer ever got that reputation in the first place...

But yeah, maybe it has to do with the fact that we have a wiiiiide selection of crap beers here to choose from. canadian, blue, kokanee (our local big shite-beer) are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to crap. there's stuff like lucky lager (which comes in 8 packs), pacific pilsner, alberta genuine draft and wildcat strong (aka, "kitty"), which are just dirt-cheap and taste pretty much the same warm or cold (which is to say, terrible) and are really only there for getting smashed. Does the UK have the equivalent of such beers? What do the desperate teenagers drink? Has anyone ever seen FUBAR? They drink nothing but Pilsner, which is actually the name of the beer, not just the type of beer. We have lots of beers like that.

Also do you guys get any of the malt-liquor 40's like Old English and Colt 45? Also terrible, but more fun to drink.

[sufi]

mmm kokanee

[Backjob]

i've never found a good place to drink post-11pm in london. if you know anywhere, share your knowledge.

(if its full of posers i'm not going, we're thinking low-key, good selction of spirits, proper brandy and proper rum, reasonable prices, be good if it was fairly dark with nice music not played too loud, no pricks, pretty girls... who knows anywhere like that?)

My mate roger's place. Pitfield street. Little bar called liquid. Lovely bloke. Does the odd lock-in.