Can you smell impeachment?

vimothy

vimothy

yurp
hundredmillionlifetimes said:
Just to give one example out of hundreds: The nonprofit American Society of International Law, consisting mainly of scholars, has laid out the case against President George W. Bush as a war criminal in article after article in a dispassionate fashion.

But very briefly:

....
Click to expand...

And what about where said nation is in continous violation of UN regulations (shooting at planes in the no-fly zone, etc)? What is the legally allowed response? What happens when a dictator turns on his own people and starts murdering them with chemical weapons?
 
O

old goriot

Well-known member
vimothy said:
And what about where said nation is in continous violation of UN regulations (shooting at planes in the no-fly zone, etc)? What is the legally allowed response? What happens when a dictator turns on his own people and starts murdering them with chemical weapons?
Click to expand...

This is all a bit beside the point, isn't it? Considering that there basically is no such thing as international law proper. International law, without a legislatively supreme international government, is little more than a facade (as current affairs are making clear to the average observer). All we have right now is the UN, and a web of treaties that each country can choose to ignore at their own convenience. The idea that a U.S. president could be impeached based on international law for waging an "illegal war" is quite simply laughable. President Bush will NEVER EVER IN A MILLION YEARS be impeached based on international law.
 
O

old goriot

Well-known member
personally I think they should go after Cheney. He calls the shots anyways, and he's incriminated up to his neck in the Scooter Libby case. Even the jurors were asking when the other charges against Cheney and co. would be coming. I have a feeling he will die (perhaps on purspose) before ever testifying.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Why should Cheney get impeached? Is it because of the murderous theo-fascists in Iraq? Is it because of something specific, or just because you don't like him?
 
O

old goriot

Well-known member
vimothy said:
Why should Cheney get impeached? Is it because of the murderous theo-fascists in Iraq? Is it because of something specific, or just because you don't like him?
Click to expand...

Personally I would like to see him impeached for incompetence, but sadly that's not a felony. He should go down for the CIA leak though. Any way you look at it, it was a major crime that fully deserves impeachment.

So while I have many other reasons for wanting to see him impeached, they are besides the point, because he has already committed an almost treasonous act.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
old goriot said:
Personally I would like to see him impeached for incompetence, but sadly that's not a felony. He should go down for the CIA leak though. Any way you look at it, it was a major crime that fully deserves impeachment.

So while I have many other reasons for wanting to see him impeached, they are besides the point, because he has already committed an almost treasonous act.
Click to expand...

Well as I understand it, only the leaking of a covert agent's identity is criminal, and the CIA had in any case confirmed Plame's identity to Novak. Seems pretty clear to me that the Libby trial was highly politicised and really about trying to hurt the Bush administration.

And what about Armitage in all of this? Shouldn't he go to trial as well?
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
hundredmillionlifetimes said:
No, it means nothing of the sort. Why don't you peruse the international conventions and rulings, most of which were formulated as a direct response to the circumstances and the outcome of that war, as Shudder alludes, instead of being deliberately provocative.
Click to expand...

You know, you really are a massive twat.
 
Last edited:
O

old goriot

Well-known member
vimothy said:
Well as I understand it, only the leaking of a covert agent's identity is criminal, and the CIA had in any case confirmed Plame's identity to Novak. Seems pretty clear to me that the Libby trial was highly politicised and really about trying to hurt the Bush administration.
Click to expand...

Of course it was highly politicized, it was a criminal scandal in the White House. No sane person can doubt that he is guilty, so I don't see what you are getting at.

vimothy said:
And what about Armitage in all of this? Shouldn't he go to trial as well?
Click to expand...

of course
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
old goriot said:
Of course it was highly politicized, it was a criminal scandal in the White House. No sane person can doubt that he is guilty, so I don't see what you are getting at.
Click to expand...

Who are we talking about again, Cheney or Libby?

Did Libby get a fair trial? That's what I'm getting at.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Nor is there anything under international law that says simply developing a weapons program amounts to an armed threat or attack. If this were true, every country on Earth would be justified in attacking the U.S., the country with the greatest number of WMD’s, at any time.
Click to expand...

Surely every country on Earth would be justified in attacking every country on Earth at any point in time, were this the case. Why can't you exersise some judgement about possible future threats?
 
Last edited:
P

polystyle

Well-known member
'Serving at the president's pleasure'

The Bush /Cheney admin is self destructing by the day.
Impeachment is one thing ,
the Gonzales gate that has emerged by yesterday's press conf. touches on quite a few things that in sum serve to shed some light and finally air on the shenanigans these cats pulled while they were riding high.
Use the Patriot Act so that they can appoint judges without Congress ? Check
Wrong - yes, illegal - the lawyers will have to sort it out.

A report tonight on Nightline about the 'Iraqi agent' codenamed Curveball bared the complete BS'ing of Cheney's crew over the cooked up WMD issue yet again.

And the hits just keep coming ...
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
As someone (nomad?) said elsewhere in this thread, though, if the Dems try to force an impeachment trial it could backfire by making them look vindictive - could be better (in the long run) just to ride out the current administration? The last thing anyone needs is people feeling sorry for them.
 
O

old goriot

Well-known member
vimothy said:
Did Libby get a fair trial? That's what I'm getting at.
Click to expand...

Of course he did, you retard. Are you aware of anything going on in North America? They deliberated for days on whether it was possible that Scooter Libby "forgot" telling almost 10 people about Valerie Plame. They unanimously concluded that he lied on purpose. It is a difficult charge to convict on, and it is only because he was so clearly guilty that they were able to convict.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
old goriot said:
Of course he did, you retard. Are you aware of anything going on in North America? They deliberated for days on whether it was possible that Scooter Libby "forgot" telling almost 10 people about Valerie Plame. They unanimously concluded that he lied on purpose. It is a difficult charge to convict on, and it is only because he was so clearly guilty that they were able to convict.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words.

And I'm not claiming to know about anything that's going on in North America - in fact, part of the reason for coming to a board like this is to learn.

Anyways, Armitage was the source - why is he not on trial? (He won't be tried: Fitzgerald has said "we're all going back to our day jobs"). Didn't the CIA also confirm Plame's employment to Novak? Is it not the case that only revealing a covert operatives identity is a criminal act? What is Libby actually convicted of, not being able to remember stuff?
 
H

hundredmillionlifetimes

Banned
Mr Tea, your resort to personal abuse to deflect from your breathtaking ignorance of history - specifically WWII - as manifested by your irrational and ridiculous question ["Does this mean that, under current law, it would have been illegal for the UK to declare war on Germany in 1939?"] betrays your inane agenda here: to turn history on its head by equating the [second world] war against facism with the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq etc. The Nazi invasions of numerous countries were war crimes, just as the US/UK invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq are war crimes.

And what is also laughable here is all this rhetoric about impeachment - as if these crimes were simply an internal, domestic US issue. Under international law, Bush and Blair and their cabals of eager lapdogs should be heading, along with Bin Laden, to the Hague court, as with other war criminals, a position which most of the responsible members of the world's population support. This is not laughable, it is extremely serious ...
 
H

hundredmillionlifetimes

Banned
vimothy said:
Surely every country on Earth would be justified in attacking every country on Earth at any point in time, were this the case. Why can't you exersise some judgement about possible future threats?
Click to expand...

The judgement about "possible future threats" is that such preventive insanity is hubristic, counterfactual paranoia. The concern is with actual present threats, specifically US/Israel's explicit plans and threats, still on-going, to attack Iran ...

Decoding Bush: 'Iran, you're next? :

A noted neocon and unabashed war hawk, Richard Perle told a journalist that a short message could be delivered to other hostile regimes in the Middle East, 'You're next.'


Sam Gardiner: Game of Strategic Chicken: What's behind the surge on Iran?

We are repeatedly told the Administration has no plans for a strike on Iran. The forces, the message and the justification are being put in place. These moves point to an attack, but it is more like a game of strategic chicken.


New Iran military strike warning:

Israeli support for military action against Iran's nuclear ambitions is dangerously misguided, a new report argues.
 
O

old goriot

Well-known member
hundredmillionlifetimes said:
And what is also laughable here is all this rhetoric about impeachment
Click to expand...

thread title: "Can you smell impeachment?"

QUOTE=hundredmillionlifetimes;80313]
- as if these crimes were simply an internal, domestic US issue. Under international law, Bush and Blair and their cabals of eager lapdogs should be heading, along with Bin Laden, to the Hague court, as with other war criminals, a position which most of the responsible members of the world's population support. This is not laughable, it is extremely serious ...[/QUOTE]

Impeachment is one thing, war crimes are another. Talk of war crimes doesn't belong in an impeachment thread. Thats the point I was making. So why don't you take your war crimes rhetoric somewhere else where it belongs, this is an internal, domestic US issue.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top