Size Zero Bullshit

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
no, people in the UK aren't big in the way that people in Florida are, they're not even close yet, pretty much everyone in the UK can still walk on their own. It'll take a good few generations to get there, and even then I doubt it, our food and car culture is totally different.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
thanks to who ever posted that magazine advice column, reminded me of how great not eating is. so i started a fast this morning... will do it for at least 5 days. will see about after that.
 

KernKätzchen

Well-known member
Which is probably why most catwalk models don't have much in the way of hips, bums or breasts - you know, the things most hetero blokes actually like the look of - because then the sexual allure of the models would distract from the supposed glamour/originality/whatever of the clothes they're wearing..

(Women who have less than a certain percent of body fat--15-18%--can't even menstruate. most runway models are at about 7-8%) I agree with Zhao, though, and I think it's WOMEN who are especially attracted to superthin models as representing beauty on a loftier-than-the-stupid-male-gaze aesthetic level. There's a lot more "romanticism" involved in the portrayal of women in fashion magazines, and more of a tendency to present women as intelligent, interesting, successful creatures than you'd see in a lad mag. I for one welcome that image over the "healthy" one of a woman wearing a hideous outfit straddling the kitchen sink or whatever.

Clothes are supposed to "wear" the models, not vice versa, for branding reasons.

We’re talking about unreal women, I think (as self-consciously opposed to the well-lit-so-not-too-real ‘real women’ of Dove’s ad campaign). Women who have literally ceased to exist, who have become pure image, decorporealized, removed from all that messy bodily stuff, all that awkward nature. This is the ideal that is presented as the ultimate ‘choice’ for modern women with aspirations – modern women who don’t want to be tied to the kitchen sink at 23 with a mewling brat hanging from each nipple – as though it were the only alternative.
It’s got a long history of course. Previously legitimized by religion’s fear of sex, revulsion towards the physical and fetishization of 'spiritual' discipline (fasting virgins, documented cases of anorexia from the Middle Ages among certain ‘devout’ young women), it has now been absorbed almost perfectly into the mechanisms of capitalism, with its fetishization of infertile youth and paradoxical desire to transcend its own material basis through unmitigated material consumption. The unattainable (size zero) can be yours – if you have enough money and buy the right products religiously enough. Do this, and complete freedom and control will be yours. You’ll be completely independent (and completely dependent on others to tell you how independent you are). You’ll be the version of yourself – hardened, sealed, perfectly impervious – that you think you are when you’re on cocaine. (This must be a reason why models do so much coke, and why its use is rising generally.) You won’t be a body that does things you don’t like and can’t control (bleed, shit, have babies), you’ll be a blank palette for whatever decoration you choose (is chosen for you), a Facebook-profile-picture version of yourself (updated every day to fit the fashion), an advert for yourself. You’ll be a perfect emotionless manifestation of your own will, a realization of your own desires (decided for you by others), a little nugget of acceptability. You’ll do.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
We’re talking about unreal women, I think (as self-consciously opposed to the well-lit-so-not-too-real ‘real women’ of Dove’s ad campaign). Women who have literally ceased to exist, who have become pure image, decorporealized, removed from all that messy bodily stuff, all that awkward nature. This is the ideal that is presented as the ultimate ‘choice’ for modern women with aspirations – modern women who don’t want to be tied to the kitchen sink at 23 with a mewling brat hanging from each nipple – as though it were the only alternative.
It’s got a long history of course. Previously legitimized by religion’s fear of sex, revulsion towards the physical and fetishization of 'spiritual' discipline (fasting virgins, documented cases of anorexia from the Middle Ages among certain ‘devout’ young women), it has now been absorbed almost perfectly into the mechanisms of capitalism, with its fetishization of infertile youth and paradoxical desire to transcend its own material basis through unmitigated material consumption. The unattainable (size zero) can be yours – if you have enough money and buy the right products religiously enough. Do this, and complete freedom and control will be yours. You’ll be completely independent (and completely dependent on others to tell you how independent you are). You’ll be the version of yourself – hardened, sealed, perfectly impervious – that you think you are when you’re on cocaine. (This must be a reason why models do so much coke, and why its use is rising generally.) You won’t be a body that does things you don’t like and can’t control (bleed, shit, have babies), you’ll be a blank palette for whatever decoration you choose (is chosen for you), a Facebook-profile-picture version of yourself (updated every day to fit the fashion), an advert for yourself. You’ll be a perfect emotionless manifestation of your own will, a realization of your own desires (decided for you by others), a little nugget of acceptability. You’ll do.

Well put, I agree. Anorexia has a pretty interesting history, as you mention, when you think about how it originally served a de-sexualizing purpose and still does. The entire set of control mechanisms that anorexia operates on really does mimic the effects of cocaine, and, interestingly enough, I know plenty of people who have both problems (that feed off each other) and have read a lot about the co-morbidity of cocaine/speed abuse and anorexia.
 

petergunn

plywood violin
Not meaning to be unkind, but couldn't Beckham trust most men with a naked Victoria? Isn't Posh, bless her, an example of the phenomenon - the infidelity-proof woman? So named because most men can't stand them or, in extreme cases, see them.

"

funnily enuff i was flipping thru the Daily News or NY Post at work today and there was a full page picture of Posh and my first thought, which i dwelled on for a good minute or so, was "how can someone fuck that?" i mean, D. Beckham is a good looking dude and rich and famous... He's like the British Tom Brady and that dude is humping Giselle Buchen...
 

petergunn

plywood violin
I saw my first bigtime surgery lady about a year ago - fully taught skin, tiny nose, huge lips (you see combinations in London but rarely the full whammy)- and was surprised at how shocked I was, I stared which is something - y'know, erudite Londoner - I wouldn't normally do, she looked really shocking, you're right, genuinely alien, I

imagine working w/ amanda lapore every week... one day at work i was really stoned and thinking about what (s)he went thru and just the reality of her day to day existance really bugged me out...

13981743-13981745-large.jpg



tho, in the proper context, she's not that strange really...



amanda_lepore07.jpg
 

CHAOTROPIC

on account
You’ll be the version of yourself – hardened, sealed, perfectly impervious – that you think you are when you’re on cocaine ... You’ll be a perfect emotionless manifestation of your own will.

& you'll wear a pair of sunglasses!! Jeff Nuttall writes about this in Bomb Culture: the desire to be COOL, that is, almost psychopathically impenetrable.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
funnily enuff i was flipping thru the Daily News or NY Post at work today and there was a full page picture of Posh and my first thought, which i dwelled on for a good minute or so, was "how can someone fuck that?" i mean, D. Beckham is a good looking dude and rich and famous... He's like the British Tom Brady and that dude is humping Giselle Buchen...

sometimes I think she's just another grade C beard. I mean, ponder the close family friendship between the Beckhams and the Cruises for a second and it's not a huge leap of the imagination...

footballers probably need to keep up a semi-straight facade to keep raking in the endorsement deals and so on, right? just like action movie heroes?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
sometimes I think she's just another grade C beard. I mean, ponder the close family friendship between the Beckhams and the Cruises for a second and it's not a huge leap of the imagination...

I dunno, I refuse to believe there's anything duplicitous or more-than-meets-the-eye about David B. He just seems so simple and innocent, which is a nice contrast to the Krystal-chugging, coke-snorting, gang-banging, racial-abuse-hurling culture that professional football is so often in the papers for these days.
Not *all* players are like that by any means, of course, but when they're in the papers for off-pitch activities, it's generally for something not terribly wholesome...
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
I think he goes out with her cos she makes him laugh - every interview I've seen with her she's been very funny - plus she's blatantly tough as nails, it's a combination alot of Brit blokes I think find very attractive.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Can't say I've seen her interviewed, though I like the idea that's she's funny. At the risk of sounding harsh, she doesn't seem to be overburdened with other talents, beyond being a 'professional celebrity'.

Edit: "goes out with"? Haven't they been married for seven years or something? Shame on your celeb-knowledge, mistersloane! :p
 

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
"The Obesity Fight"? What kind of namby-pamby shit is that? We need a War On Fatties!
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Fattiess have adopted the snack-food industry, along with disability benefits, as the latest strategy in their "cosmic struggle for world domination."
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"obesity in the US"
I am in Michigan right now and I can well believe that distribution. In the office where I'm working (about fifteen hundred people) to see a thin person is a rarity and there are a few real behemoths, in fact there was one woman I saw in the canteen who was basically so fat that she couldn't walk properly.
I've been to the states before but this really seems to be more pronounced than last time I was here a few years ago. Also, the food is ridiculous, every portion is massive and deepfried and, although I'm a pig, nine times out of ten I can't finish what I'm given. Every place you go has a tv with millions of food ads as well, huge burgers dripping with glistening cheese and buy one get one free on wings or pizza or subs or whatever - I can't wait to ge back to the UK and eat something small and healthy. I wish I'd weighed myself before I came here so I could compare when I get back, it's going to take me ages to feel healthy again.
 

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
I am in Michigan right now and I can well believe that distribution. In the office where I'm working (about fifteen hundred people) to see a thin person is a rarity and there are a few real behemoths, in fact there was one woman I saw in the canteen who was basically so fat that she couldn't walk properly.
I've been to the states before but this really seems to be more pronounced than last time I was here a few years ago. Also, the food is ridiculous, every portion is massive and deepfried and, although I'm a pig, nine times out of ten I can't finish what I'm given. Every place you go has a tv with millions of food ads as well, huge burgers dripping with glistening cheese and buy one get one free on wings or pizza or subs or whatever - I can't wait to ge back to the UK and eat something small and healthy. I wish I'd weighed myself before I came here so I could compare when I get back, it's going to take me ages to feel healthy again.

I don't know where you are in Michigan, but you can find small&healthy in Ann Arbor. What are the restaurants you're going to? Chains? In any case, the amount of bar-food saturation in the Midwest is ridiculous. I think it has something to do with residual German foodways -- Germany's really obese isn't it?

I'm always kind of shocked when I'm in an office situation... I have a pretty open definition of 'attractive', but it's like people decide to purposely get fat&ugly&boring-looking at a certain point in their lives (after marriage/kids?) -- some Protestant antisex thing?
 

zhao

there are no accidents
the amount of bar-food saturation in the Midwest is ridiculous. I think it has something to do with residual German foodways -- Germany's really obese isn't it?

i ain't seen a single REAL fattie, much less water buffalo or whale here. but then again berlin is not exemplary of the rest of the country, which i know fuck about. and the neighborhood i live in is all hipsters and designer label wearing 30 somethings.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"I don't know where you are in Michigan, but you can find small&healthy in Ann Arbor. What are the restaurants you're going to? Chains? In any case, the amount of bar-food saturation in the Midwest is ridiculous. I think it has something to do with residual German foodways -- Germany's really obese isn't it?

I'm always kind of shocked when I'm in an office situation... I have a pretty open definition of 'attractive', but it's like people decide to purposely get fat&ugly&boring-looking at a certain point in their lives (after marriage/kids?) -- some Protestant antisex thing?"
I'm in Ann Arbor actually (for the next half an hour at least). I'm sure that there are options but I'm not the one deciding where we go. And the (obvious) places we are going are the places I'm talking about of course, also the restaurant in the hotel, in the office etc. My point is that the people who live here are all fucking fat.
Another thing, what's with the basketball everywhere? In every bar you see it but no-one seems to watch it or give a fuck about what's happening; in the UK there is football (soccer) on all over the place in the same way but there is always at least one (normally lots more of course) person watching it and shouting when something happens whereas here it just seems to be like moving wallpaper. They even have it on above the urinals. Has basketball reached the point where it's just the law that it has to be on and no-one even cares abuot it any more?
Dunno about Germany being obese, I've never noticed that or heard of it although their food can often be quite stodgy (but good).
You're spot on about office attractiveness though.
 

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
I think Ann Arbor's more of a college football town than college basketball... most people don't pay attention until the end-of-season tournament, where tradition states you must throw down at least $5 in a "pool" betting on the fortunes of 64 teams so that for an entire month all social discourse at work is about bizarre realms like "Gonzaga" and "Washington State." This does not occur until March. Anyway, as with fried food, the U.S. is awash in more televised sports than is necessary or healthy.

IR, I don't know if you are looking for dining recommendations, but the Earthen Jar is all vegan Indian food, and you pay by the weight of the food you order. I forget the name of the sushi place I went to, but there are several. There's also a really good Korean place outside of the campus area... Seoul Garden I think? Also great record stores and thrift shops there, you're really in the gem of the region. There was a chance I would be moving to AA a year ago and I was looking forward to it.
 
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