Desi/Bhangra - Potential Hardcore Continuum Mutation?

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faustus

Well-known member
Bang Diddley said:
having said that the typical asian thing is more the r'n'b/bhangra fusion. so perhaps this will come with the next thing.
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yeah the last couple of panjabi hit squad shows have been pretty bland in comparison to what i was hoping for (based on some random cd purchases of stuff that came out around 2003).

like you say, based on rnb and bhangra rather than UKG

properly in a graveyard slot now too :confused:
 
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gumdrops

Well-known member
i dont actually mind the better end of desi beats - i like the indian sense of melody you got on certain tunes wrapped around more standard r&b/hip hop backing (mixed with some obligatory tabla/dhol of course) but it let itself be too dictated by american R&B and rap. lots of potential (like someone else said) but it didnt/hasnt really moved past that enough.
 
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stelfox

Beast of Burden
I think that the problem with desi beats is that most of its non-asian audience is not terribly accustomed to listening to similar music, so it's far too easy to say: "yeah, yeah, this stuff was awesome when i first heard it in 2002, but after a few years it all sounds the same and hasn't changed."
it doesn't all sound the same and to say that kind of misses the point in lots of different ways.
the totally bowled over feeling that you get listening to desi beats for the first time doesn't last because you eventually get used to the sounds of new instrumentation, rhythms etc, plus the music is actually pretty constant and consistent by its nature.
If you listen to real hardcore folk bhangra, played acoustically on nothing more than dhols and tumbis, unchanged for centuries, it's really not that different rhythmically to the electronic stuff.
the expectation of breathless development and all this talk of "potential" (purportedly wasted or otherwise) is a very eurocentric point of view, really.
personally, i think it's best to avoid imposing incompatible external expectations on other cultures wherever possible.
crowbarring desi music into an increasingly shaky continuum isn't actually that helpful. one has very little to do with the other, so doing this can only lead to a strangely refracted reading of the music.
the thing i've grown to really love about bhangra/desi is its resilence and the constancy of the rhythms —actually the fact that it doesn't reinvent itself or splinter into new micro-movements every six months.
although it's absolutely contemporary, desi music is absolutely tied into a much longer history and that should be celebrated and appreciated, not seen as a failing.
the word "desi" loosely translates as "home/ours", so this constancy is actually really important. desi music about the expression of an anglo/US/Canadian-Asian identity, a claiming of place in western society. it has nothing to do with "hardcore continuum mutations", really, so keeping certain elements in place and not changing is kind of key to the whole deal.
i suppose that simple way of summing it up is that it's just as much about about looking back and staying connected to the past as it is about moving forward.
also, when you get over the "damn this is the best dance music ever" reaction, which is a totally valid reaction because it's absolutely true, desi beats can open the door to a whole world of traditional indian music that you end up primed and ready for without even realising it.
 
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muser

Well-known member
there has been quite alot of cross pollinating/sampling of different global music over the past years which i've been really enjoying; 2/5 BZ mentioned before, filastine, maga bo, rupture, hanumans mixes, monkeysteak, nettle, all based with hardcore/jungle/dubstep type grounding.
 
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gumdrops

Well-known member
i dont have a problem with it not 'progressing' per se although i dont see that as an invalid complaint, unless youre some idiot who only likes stuff cos its trendy then gets bored when you think it hasnt 'progressed' and moves on to the next thing. i dont think desi beats was ever that big amongst non asians anyway - same with something like reggaeton, its just big with its own audience, everyone else just dismisses it or says 'oh its just like *insert better known more popular-with the masses genre*. and i dont think thats a strictly european thing though - the focus of many critics on 'newness' and being 'state of the art' in hip hop is quite irritating, but US black music has never been much into 'looking back' anyway, except at periodic intervals. i just think desi beats can be a bit more than it is. ie, while its prob a bit pointless blaming it for being too in thrall with american black music, when the very purpose of it IS precisely that fusion, the US influence can *sometimes* be too pronounced (like that shamur track, the one) or just a bit crap lol (eg - the rapping on the hard kaur bombay deewana one). i might just be a bit puristy though and theres enough stuff that is more than the sum of its parts. but yes, i do agree that if you have no knowledge of indian music, you can think ALL it is is a rip off of commerical rap and R&B (which is what i remember reading in some reviews) which is quite erroneous and just too easy.

on a sidenote, it has no asian influence whatsoever, but i really love that jay sean tune maybe. that jassi sidhu track koka is great too (and has a few sections that are a bit more interesting/integrated as 'asian D&B' than the old talvin singh stuff - not knocking that though cos at the time i really admired it).
 
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C

Client Eastwood

Well-known member
dam, i typed up a longer post and it timed out by the time i pressed sent. in summary what i said

speaking as a desi myself, im with stelfox check for the original folk bhangra from india
or the uk bhangra from the late 70's early 80's.
Golden Star
Satthies
Apna Sangeet
Heera

These live bands made sold loads of cassettes and played at weddings receptions.

got some of this stuff on tape, keep meaning to digitize it but can never get the time.
 
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gumdrops

Well-known member
if you could digitise any of that stuff, that would be amazing. in return i could offer to digitise some of my dads old pankaj udhas tapes lol.
 
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Client Eastwood

Well-known member
ill see what i can do gumdrops, got some pankaj udhas inna ghazal style too.

does one go about digitizing cassettes, perhaps someone can post in Technology for me.
 
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gumdrops

Well-known member
i dont know how :( but im sure its not that hard.

as far as the original post for this thread, i still think that dubstep tune qawali by pinch is SEVERELY overrated. people like it just cos of the influence it brings i think, regardless of the effectiveness of the record.
 
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muser

Well-known member
try in the media avenue section of http://www.hagasny.com/forums/ they've got alot of this kind of stuff on rapidshare. I've only managed to hear the apna sangeet so far but enjoying it :).

gumdrops said:
i dont know how :( but im sure its not that hard.

as far as the original post for this thread, i still think that dubstep tune qawali by pinch is SEVERELY overrated. people like it just cos of the influence it brings i think, regardless of the effectiveness of the record.
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I agree the record perhaps it can be overated now, it hasn't really become a classic, but when it cam eout it was incredibly fresh,I can't think of anything sonically similar to it at all before it was released, same for pinch's war dub which seemed to have been alot less hyped.
 
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Z

zhao

there are no accidents
stelfox said:
I think that the problem with desi beats is that most of its non-asian audience is not terribly accustomed to listening to similar music, so it's far too easy to say: "yeah, yeah, this stuff was awesome when i first heard it in 2002, but after a few years it all sounds the same and hasn't changed."
it doesn't all sound the same and to say that kind of misses the point in lots of different ways.
the totally bowled over feeling that you get listening to desi beats for the first time doesn't last because you eventually get used to the sounds of new instrumentation, rhythms etc, plus the music is actually pretty constant and consistent by its nature.
If you listen to real hardcore folk bhangra, played acoustically on nothing more than dhols and tumbis, unchanged for centuries, it's really not that different rhythmically to the electronic stuff.
the expectation of breathless development and all this talk of "potential" (purportedly wasted or otherwise) is a very eurocentric point of view, really.
personally, i think it's best to avoid imposing incompatible external expectations on other cultures wherever possible.
crowbarring desi music into an increasingly shaky continuum isn't actually that helpful. one has very little to do with the other, so doing this can only lead to a strangely refracted reading of the music.
the thing i've grown to really love about bhangra/desi is its resilence and the constancy of the rhythms —actually the fact that it doesn't reinvent itself or splinter into new micro-movements every six months.
although it's absolutely contemporary, desi music is absolutely tied into a much longer history and that should be celebrated and appreciated, not seen as a failing.
the word "desi" loosely translates as "home/ours", so this constancy is actually really important. desi music about the expression of an anglo/US/Canadian-Asian identity, a claiming of place in western society. it has nothing to do with "hardcore continuum mutations", really, so keeping certain elements in place and not changing is kind of key to the whole deal.
i suppose that simple way of summing it up is that it's just as much about about looking back and staying connected to the past as it is about moving forward.
also, when you get over the "damn this is the best dance music ever" reaction, which is a totally valid reaction because it's absolutely true, desi beats can open the door to a whole world of traditional indian music that you end up primed and ready for without even realising it.
Click to expand...

good post. agree with main point re: imposition of western ideas of "progress" onto something which does not subscribe to those terms.

yet at the same time, i think many of us can imagine really amazing "fusion" or modern mutations stemming from Bhangra and Desi. while traditionally there has been some successful efforts, such as this tune i posted in the ID thread, modern attempts at electronic updates of indian dance music have been largely botched, IMO at least, by the whole Asian Underground thing. we all see the possibilities of a new breed, but it just has not happened yet. i supppose right about now i should just get on with making some remixes and shut the hell up. :p
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
muser said:
there has been quite alot of cross pollinating/sampling of different global music over the past years which i've been really enjoying; 2/5 BZ mentioned before, filastine, maga bo, rupture, hanumans mixes, monkeysteak, nettle, all based with hardcore/jungle/dubstep type grounding.
Click to expand...

playing right before Filastine at Fusion, glad to be sharing a stage with him... along with his set will try to create a bit of a cohesive middle eastern dub/bass sort of experience...
 
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Pulchritude

Pulchritude

Active member
Bang Diddley said:
Apna Sangeet
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My friend's Uncle was in Apna Sangeet! That's not really much of a claim to fame, is it?

I'm with you on the issue of the bhangra emerging in the seventies/eighties being good. A lot of it sounds like utter cheese, these days, but I think that's part of the appeal for me. I'd also give props to Tigerstyle for doing the traditional Desi beats and more westernised music fusion stuff quite well. As for relative newcomers, Lembher Hussainpuri has a mighty voice that can carry off many things fantastically.
 
O

Octopus?

Well-known member
Pulchritude said:
As for relative newcomers, Lembher Hussainpuri has a mighty voice that can carry off many things fantastically.
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Lehmber Hussainpuri is the MAN. I have a number of collections of his stuff (including "Folk Attack" and "The King") and his voice is incredible. "Folk Attack" is almost exclusively produced by Dr. Zeus making for the most satisfying complete listening experience I've heard from LH to date, but his voice always manages to make even the most 'mundane' tune that much better.
 
F

faustus

Well-known member
from mad decent:

Tigerstyle - Bhang Goes Tha Riddim mix

01 Mi Nuh Dun (Tigerstyle remix ft Pamma) - Macka Diamond ft Mad Cobra
02 Kamasutra - Adassa ft Pitbull
03 Salio El Sol (Tigerstyle Remix) – Don Omar
04 Let The Music Play - Shamur
05 Genie Dance - Elephantman
06 Ishq Nagni – Tigerstyle ft Labh Janjua & Mr Vegas (Coolie Dance)
07 Aaja Ve (Tigerstyle Remix ft HardKaur) - Sona
08 Girl From Pakistan – Tigerstyle ft Bhupi Gill & Elephantman (Steps Riddim)
09 Dutty Wine – Tony Matterhorn
10 Yaari – Jazzy B
11 Badman Forward, Badman Pull Up – Ding Dong
12 Jatt Hogiya Sharaabi – Panjabi MC ft Kuldip Manak
13 Killa Walk, Prezzi Bounce – Soltex 3000
14 Mele Vich Vajda Dhol – Tigerstyle ft Labh Janjua
15 Nachna Aunda Nei – Tigerstyle ft Kaka Bhainiwala
16 Maybe (Tigerstyle Remix) – Jay Sean
17 Can-Indian Boy - Blitzkrieg ft Parichay & Nikitta
18 Ni Nachle – Imran Khan
19 Jaago – Rani Randeep & Major Saab
20 Four Seasons – Vybz Kartel
21 10 Dollar – M.I.A.
22 Furr – Raj Brar

(See, this is what this thread should be about, not showing off about how great and moral your reasons for listening to certain stuff are)
 
F

faustus

Well-known member
and a bizarre desi/ industrial mix from the mighty el kano:

download

no tracklist, but "featuring tracks by Sukshinder Shinda, Panjabi MC, Malkit Singh, Gunjit Singh, Audiofile Collective, Monkeysteak, The Bug, DJ Scud, Wasteland, Elastic Horizons, Enduser, Line 47, Mad EP, Sunn O))) plus more ... "
 
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