Virginia Gun Massacre

C

Circus Lupus

Circus Of Wolves
New angle:

If those engineering cunts who got shot had a little bit of improvisation then they would have turned their lap tops, desks, and chalk boards etc. into a proper defense system I reckon.

Maybe the curriculum should be modified?

Serious: The neo-con parasites will use this to militarize all U.S. empire academia.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
IdleRich said:
Well exactly.
The main result of this is inevitably going to be discussion of gun-control laws, probably some stuff about immigration (given that he was Korean) and woe-betide any band or computer games that he was into.
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I heard they found half a spliff in his room...

/if this had happened in the UK right now
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
mms said:
why?
if you live in a country that extols war without reason, who's values are simplistic black and white goodies and baddies, even more so as it desperatley defends its position by painting everything in really really polarised terms because there seems no other choice, then surely there will be people, especially young people who will internalise some of this state sanctioned violence, internalise it and turn it's values as personal war. It's certainly not an unusual thing in the US and as a reaction to the US in many ways historically, i'm not just talking about guys with guns in schools, you could take in the panthers, weathermen, timothy mcveigh etc, even though we know about how they internalised and justified their personal wars, they were undoubtedly a creation of US culture and usually one at war. Painting the person who did this as just a lone random crazy avoids all the factors that go to create this situation, and doesn't help explain why it keeps on happening in similar US instituitions too, those that try and fill people with some types of the values of US society.
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I can't help feeling you're just projecting your own political grievances onto a situation that has nothing to do with them. Clearly the US has a problem with this kind of beheaviour, though it's by no means exclusive to the US - just worse.

Here's a chart I've seen of random massacres of more than 10 people dating back 40 years. Note the appearance of Switzerland and New Zealand, neither of them countries "that extol war without reason, who's values are simplistic black and white goodies and baddies" I'd say. Note also the absnence of Russia, a highly militarised country which has considerable experience of simplistic views.

http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF02.htm

26 Apr 2002 Erfurt, Germany 16 + 1 Legal guns, pistol club member
27 Sep 2001 Zug, Switzerland 14 + 1 Legal guns, licensed pistol owner
29 Jul 1999 Atlanta, GA, USA 12 + 1 Legal guns, no licence required
20 Apr 1999 Littleton, CO, USA 13 + 2 Not legal guns
28 Apr 1996 Port Arthur, Australia 35 Not legal guns
13 Mar 1996 Dunblane, Scotland 17 + 1 Legal guns, pistol club member
16 Oct 1991 Killeen, TX, USA 23 + 1 Legal guns, no licence required
13 Nov 1990 Aramoana, New Zealand 13 + 1 Legal guns, licensed gun owner
18 Jun 1990 Jacksonville, FL, USA 9 + 1 Legal guns, no licence required
06 Dec 1989 Montreal, Canada 14 + 1 Legal guns, no licence required
19 Aug 1987 Hungerford, England 16 + 1 Legal guns, pistol club member
20 Aug 1986 Edmond, OK, USA 14 + 1 Legal guns, no licence required
18 Jul 1984 San Ysidro, CA, USA 21 + 1 Legal guns, no licence required
01 Aug 1966 Austin, TX, USA 16 + 1 Legal guns, no licence required

I'm really interested to know why these things keep happening, seemingly with greater regularity and ferocity. Why do they invariably seem to be middle-class losers/loners?
 
Guybrush

Guybrush

Dittohead
crackerjack said:
I'm really interested to know why these things keep happening, seemingly with greater regularity and ferocity. Why do they invariably seem to be middle-class losers/loners?
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Have you read the article Gavin linked to? You should give it at try. He views it as a result of Reaganomics, but don’t let that put you off.
 
M

mms

sometimes
crackerjack said:
I can't help feeling you're just projecting your own political grievances onto a situation that has nothing to do with them. Clearly the US has a problem with this kind of beheaviour, though it's by no means exclusive to the US - just worse.
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it's much worse in the states while these are more or less one offs in other places, incidentally places such as switzerland they have national service and keeping a gun at home is a requirement, and gun law in australia is less tight than the uk for instance, legislation was tightened after the massacres.

i'm not really trying to project political grieviances, i just think there is much more potential in the US for armed militas, groups with extreme ideas in the US who are armed and armed individuals with misanthropic ideas which are either backed up through skewed political ideals or personal vendettas, alot of these people are willing to die too or will destroy themselves after the act, which seems to mirror us foreign policy and the attitude towards arms. alot of these people and situations happen during wartime too.


crackerjack said:
im really interested to know why these things keep happening, seemingly with greater regularity and ferocity. Why do they invariably seem to be middle-class losers/loners?
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i don't think it has mch to do with the individual, rather their place in the institution, surely it should be why do they happen in this type of institution so often, i also distrust the idea that these people are so loser and lonely, again that seems to be a fairly simple scapegoat that fulfills a rationale after the killings.
 
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H

hundredmillionlifetimes

Banned
The Disavowed Elephant in the Room

253724-319106.jpg


Guybrush said:
Yeah, I noticed that too. Worst term ever.

My thoughts were: 1. This is about an afternoon’s worth of Iraqi killings ...
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From suicide gunmen to suicide bombers? Not far off.

Iraq Has Two Virginia Techs Every Day

By Juan Cole

I keep hearing from US politicians and the US mass media that the "situation is improving" in Iraq. The profound sorrow and alarm produced in the American public by the horrific shootings at Virginia Tech should give us a baseline for what the Iraqis are actually living through. They have two Virginia Tech-style attacks every single day.​


But I blame it all on that git Bob Geldof's 1979 "I Don't Like Mondays" ...

253724-319115.jpg
 
A

adruu

This Is It
gun control is pretty irrelevant here. he used small arms, and nothing close to the arsenal they carried into columbine,,,

. a .22 is an alternative to a stapler in texas

and generally yes, i think the indifference to 50-60+ daily killings in iraq is incomparably worse than another loner psycho
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
i don't think it has mch to do with the individual, rather their place in the institution.surely it should be why do they happen in this type of institution so often./QUOTE]

Well they used to happen often in the postal service, which is where I assume 'go postal' comes from.

i also distrust the idea that these people are so loser and lonely, again that seems to be a fairly simple scapegoat that fulfills a rationale after the killings.
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Well they're hardly the actions of sociable and popular people, are they?

From today's Guardian.

"The killer behind America's deadliest mass shooting had come to the attention of police as early as 2005, the Guardian learned yesterday. Cho Seung-hui was revealed to be a troubled loner of South Korean descent who left behind a disturbing note of grievances against his university saying: "You caused me to do this."

Police investigating the Virginia Technical College massacre, which left 33 dead, mainly students, blamed Cho, a fourth-year English student who lived on the campus, for earlier incidents ranging from stalking women to setting fire to a dormitory. The police suspect he was also behind persistent recent bomb threats.

Professor Lucinda Roy, a former head of the English department, said Cho had caused alarm in 2005 for taking illicit mobile phone photographs of women from under the desks and writing an essay brimming with rage.

At the time, she emailed Cho expressing her concerns and also contacted campus police, the legal department and counselling services. Cho responded with a long, angry and incoherent email.

Prof Roy said campus police reviewed Cho's essay but decided not to intervene as it did not contain specific threats. Instead he was removed from class and received individual tutoring from Prof Roy. He attended sessions with a hat pulled down over his face and wearing dark glasses. "He just seemed like the loneliest man I've ever known," she said last night."
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Then again, he did apparently rail against "rich kids". Clearly an act of extraordinary nobility and courage in the class war.
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vimothy

vimothy

yurp
crackerjack said:
I've looked at that piece now and tbh I'm speechless. A "kind of hero"? Real fucking Spartacus.
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Me too. And I actually like his magazine, The eXile.

Officially everyone was horrified, but a lot of friends I talked to, ranging from artists to yuppies, told me they had the same reaction, that Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris were like heroes, and we were all surprised it didn't happen sooner.
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Pretty shocking stuff - it reads like some sort of lost excerpt from Bret Easton Ellis. Especially if you read the middle of the sentence as "Klebold and Harris were, like, heroes." And the Americans are slaves, Reagonomics causes people to kill thing - this guy should meet up with Adam Curtis.

I still rate Gary Brecher though.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
Pretty shocking stuff - it reads like some sort of lost excerpt from Bret Easton Ellis. Especially if you read the middle of the sentence as "Klebold and Harris were, like, heroes." And the Americans are slaves, Reagonomics causes people to kill thing - this guy should meet up with Adam Curtis.
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It is pretty extreme to say the least. I did find that bit interesting about the doctor being unable to understand why slaves would revolt - I wonder how prevalent that attitude was?
 
Guybrush

Guybrush

Dittohead
vimothy said:
Pretty shocking stuff - it reads like some sort of lost excerpt from Bret Easton Ellis. Especially if you read the middle of the sentence as "Klebold and Harris were, like, heroes."
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I think he is exaggerating to get his point across, especially with the slave analogy. I doubt that he would defend this guy, by the way. The Columbine guys had been bullied for years, for example.
 
M

mms

sometimes
crackerjack said:
i don't think it has mch to do with the individual, rather their place in the institution.surely it should be why do they happen in this type of institution so often./QUOTE]

Well they're hardly the actions of sociable and popular people, are they?


Then again, he did apparently rail against "rich kids". Clearly an act of extraordinary nobility and courage in the class war.
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what makes a person antisocial and unpopular?

Well he clearly showed some feelings of authoritarian repression from his confessions and reportedly sexual repression, done for taking photographs of girls and being 'creepy', - you know noone wants to talk to a creep, reports about him not identifying himself and being nicknamed the question mark kid, would make it seem like he really believed he didn't exist within the confines of the college, maybe society and hey he was a poor four eyed korean dude.. These kind of feelings of repression inside these institutions is the common factor in these kind of situations is it not?
 
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O

old goriot

Well-known member
crackerjack said:
Then again, he did apparently rail against "rich kids". Clearly an act of extraordinary nobility and courage in the class war.
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If you look at the small exerpts of his note, his descriptions of American university life are pretty bang-on. "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus. Sound familiar? Sounds a lot like a big crappy book written by Tom Wolfe that the NYT etc. praised for yet again capturing the elusive spirit of the times. It's hardly a marxist stance. American universities are festering shitholes of privilege and corruption. Without denying that this guy had mental problems and that there is no justification for what he did, I think the scary part of this thing is that there is a grain of truth to his grievances. Nobody wants to accept it, hence the "search for a motive", despite the fact that he left an 8 page note detailing his motives.
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W

wonk_vitesse

radio eros
Guybrush said:
Yeah, I noticed that too. Worst term ever.

My thoughts were: 1. This is about an afternoon’s worth of Iraqi killings; 2. Unlike most of his equals, at least he managed to up the body count somewhat; 3. There is something perversely noble about these guys killing themselves amid the fury, depriving society of anyone on which to project its rage.

The U.S.’s unhealthy fascination with guns never ceases to amaze me.
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Couldn't agree more. I find this a media problem rather than a US gun problem, they live with their laws and ain't gonna change, but why all the media coverage. Nothing is going to change , why are US lives so worthy of blanket coverage?

Given the death toll in Iraq today and the countless lives lost in small civil & border wars across the globe these kind of stories are skewed form of media gloating.
 
T

turtles

in the sea
crackerjack said:
i don't think it has mch to do with the individual, rather their place in the institution.surely it should be why do they happen in this type of institution so often./QUOTE]

Well they used to happen often in the postal service, which is where I assume 'go postal' comes from.
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Well sure, but is it too hard to believe that there are similarities between these organizations (and especially the cultures in which they exist) that might increase the tendency of people to commit these sort of crimes? You haven't exactly blown his whole argument out of the water here...

Well they're hardly the actions of sociable and popular people, are they?
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True, but being a loner is perhaps more the end result of the situation that they're in, the situation that would eventually lead them down the path they end up taking. I would imagine that what lead these people to become loners in the first place is probably what eventually pushed them over the edge. So being a loner is maybe a precursor to committing these kind of crimes, but I don't think it's necessarily one of the causes of these kind of crimes.


Hmm, and i guess I should clarify that what I was saying earlier was definitely not a "these guys are heroes" type response (which is clearly reprehensible) but merely that the motivation to do something like this is maybe a lot more understandable than people like to admit.
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