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Thread: Pointless But It Does My Head In

  1. #3436
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefinga View Post
    What does typically constitute "male" leadership to begin with?
    .
    Male leadership typically serves to maintain male power. But if the entire system is set up to benefit men, having a female leader isn't likely to change that dynamic very much on its own.

  2. #3437
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    (of course maybe there was discrimination on another axis, and you do seem to be implying that there was some class element to it).
    I think this was a case of middle-class people who're very, very into identity politics forgetting about the inequalities of wealth and class because it's just not really on their radar. I wonder if there was element of this when I mentioned in a post a while back that white boys from poor families have worse average school achievement and are less likely to go to university than kids from any other demographic, which Benny dismissed as a "typical Tea post". Now that fact does not cancel out, by any means, the relative paucity of women and non-white people among professors, judges or CEOs - in other words, it's not a denial of the privilege that comes with being white and/or male. But it does mean you have to look at the socioeconomic background of the people who stand a chance of achieving any sort of job like that in the first place, and appreciate that there is a dimension of privilege other than gender/ethnicity/culture.

    All of which is not to say that identity politics should be forgotten about while the great task of overthrowing capitalism and abolishing class remains unachieved - just that it's good to keep the one issue in mind even while you're mainly discussing the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    As to the rest,it's impossible to work out what your overall position is...
    To be entirely honest, my position is not really clear even to me, and I admit I probably need to rethink some things. A big part of it is just the dissonance between a world which in many respects is getting more and more authoritarian and reactionary all the time, and the vast amounts of time and energy being invested by a great number of people into social activism of various kinds.

    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    Relatively minor point, but more female leaders would only lead to the results you suggest, if the overall power balance/hegemonic attitudes shifted enough to allow women to be leaders on their own terms, rather than 'forced' (if they want to succeed) to adopt exactly the same characteristics as has typically constituted male leadership. It's a complex one though.
    Yeah, I'm sure I've heard somewhere a variant along the lines of "to succeed in a man's world, a woman has to be more manly than the men" - something like that, anyway. Which is naturally an oversimplification but I think probably contains a certain amount of truth. It's notable that the two female PMs this country has had so far haven't exactly been great forces for progress (ahem). Which is a bugger, because it's not like we haven't got plenty of great female MPs.
    Last edited by Mr. Tea; 26-05-2017 at 03:13 PM.
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  4. #3438
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    Morrissey

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