Pointless But It Does My Head In

mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
Psychological experiment and biological stuff on sex differences in the visual system followed by a bit of speculation:

Biological
components of sex differences in color preference - Anya C. Hurlbert and Yazhu Ling

Thus, while both males and females share a natural preference for ‘bluish’ contrasts, the female preference for ‘reddish’ contrasts further shifts her peak towards
the reddish region of the hue circle: girls’ preference for pink may have evolved on top of a natural, universal preference for blue. We speculate that this sex difference arose from sex-specific functional specializations in the evolutionary division of labour. The hunter- gatherer theory proposes that female brains should be specialized for gathering-related tasks and is supported by studies of visual spatial abilities [7]. Trichromacy and the L–M opponent channel are ‘modern’ adaptations in primate evolution thought to have evolved to facilitate the identification of ripe, yellow fruit
or edible red leaves embedded in green foliage [8]. It is therefore plausible that, in specializing for gathering, the female brain honed the trichromatic adaptations,
and these underpin the female preference for objects ‘redder’ than the background. As a gatherer, the female would also need to be more aware of color information than the hunter. This requirement would emerge as greater certainty and more stability
in female color preference, which we find. An alternative explanation or the evolution of trichromacy is the need to discriminate subtle changes in skin color due to emotional states and social-sexual signals [9]; again, females may have honed these adaptations
for their roles as care-givers and ‘empathizers’
Click to expand...

Color preference patterns are nonetheless systematically governed by sensory encoding, and, to a significant extent, predictable.
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nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
IdleRich said:
No. That would be gay.
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You're right that pushed it over the top.

As for the color article, stereoscopic vision might be better in females but how in the hell did they prove a "preference" for red hues in women. And what was their sample size?

I get a 404 error when I click on that link, Biscuits.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
mixed_biscuits said:
What about those separated-from-birth identical twins that are found pursuing identical, unfathomably niche interests?

To think that, if I had had an identical twin, he would be more likely than not to be backing me up on this very thread. :(
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Citations please...

Although in a lot of twin studies, mental illness shows a very strong genetic component. Niche interests seems pretty trivial...
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
nomadthethird said:
I get a 404 error when I click on that link.
Click to expand...

That's because you need to delete the full stop at the end - it was a trap.

nomadthethird said:
Citations please...
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No! I saw it on telly once, so it must be true.

As if citing anything works on Dissensus - all one has to do is assert that the authors are 'discredited', 'full of it' or 'smell' (because of their conflate-ulence, perhaps) and one can carry on on one's own (genetically determined) sweet way. :D

nomadthethird said:
Niche interests seems pretty trivial...
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Yes, it's ostensibly trivial, but there is no reason why the ostensibly serious and the ostensibly trivial should not have a common cause (in other words, why shouldn't the 'trivial' require as much of a 'good reason' as the serious?)

Merely looking at vision, there are plenty of papers that assert hard and fast sex differences. If similar differences are to be found in other parts of the body, then one already has a multitude of reasons to expect differing cultural production and reception tendencies between the sexes. Here's another one on sex differences in vision:

An example of sex-linked color vision differences

The present work describes a psychophysical experiment that revealed significant differences in color perception between men and women, and that consequently advises the separate treatment of the two populations.
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Quantifying variations in personal color spaces: Are there sex differences in color vision?

Normal trichromatic subjects in two age bands were examined, teenagers and university students, and in both cases males placed significantly less weight on a red-green axis, and more on lightness.
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nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
mixed_biscuits said:
That's because you need to delete the full stop at the end - it was a trap.



No! I saw it on telly once, so it must be true.

As if citing anything works on Dissensus - all one has to do is assert that the authors are 'discredited', 'full of it' or 'smell' (because of their conflate-ulence, perhaps) and one can carry on on one's own (genetically determined) sweet way. :D



Yes, it's ostensibly trivial, but there is no reason why the ostensibly serious and the ostensibly trivial should not have a common cause (in other words, why shouldn't the 'trivial' require as much of a 'good reason' as the serious?)

Merely looking at vision, there are plenty of papers that assert hard and fast sex differences. If similar differences are to be found in other parts of the body, then one already has a multitude of reasons to expect differing cultural production and reception tendencies between the sexes. Here's another one on sex differences in vision:

An example of sex-linked color vision differences



Quantifying variations in personal color spaces: Are there sex differences in color vision?
Click to expand...

Whoa whoa whoa. "Sex-linked" does not mean there are evolutionarily conferred differences in preference. It means that, because men are hemizygous for non-autosomal traits, they are more likely to be affected by genetic disorders that are X-chromosome linked. So, yeah, men are more often colorblind. But women are, too-- they're just more likely to be heterozygous for the mutation.

Second, sex differences in vision do not equate to sex-based preferences in color. That's just another argument altogether. And the article you've linked to doesn't support it.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
mixed_biscuits said:
Once differences in vision have been found, it's incumbent on us to give convincing reasons as to why they shouldn't be linked to preferences, rather than blaming the culture fairy for everything.
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Whaaat?

There could be a million molecular reasons why there are vision differences. Or there could have been a bottleneck in early human history, where only women with really good vision survived. Or it could be common to all primates.

I have no idea, but I never said anything about blaming culture for mutations on the goddamn X chromosome...
 
P

petergunn

plywood violin
nomadthethird said:
Citations please...

Although in a lot of twin studies, mental illness shows a very strong genetic component. Niche interests seems pretty trivial...
Click to expand...

i am not sure how this relates to the gender & nature/nuture sex debate going on, but i do recall reading a few studies done on seperated idenical twins where despite being raised far away from each other in different backgrounds they had very similar life paths...

this is the case MB may have been referring to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Twin_Family_Study
http://science.howstuffworks.com/genetic-science/twin1.htm

Each twin had driven his light-blue Chevrolet to Pas Grille beach in Florida for family vacations.

Both Jims smoked Salem cigarettes and drank Miller Lite beer.

Both Jims had at one time held part-time posts as sheriffs.

Both were fingernail biters and suffered from migraine headaches.

Each Jim enjoyed leaving love notes to his wife throughout the house

it tends to make it's way into psych 101 textbooks...


or this one:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20030413/ai_n12863703/
both study psychology at university and they both even shared the same recurring dream.


newer stuff:

"It's not just our taste in music or books; it goes beyond that. In her, I see the same basic personality. And yet, eventually we had to realize that we're different people with different life histories."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15629096

i think the point of all of this is that a large portion of our personality is genetic and the rest is enviromental and how much is what is something we haven't quite figured out... there is an element of fortune telling (where you dwell on what they're right about rather than what does not apply) about all of this as well as healthy dose of luck (no one ever talks about the twins who have NOTHING in common), but cases like this are good examples of the hardwiring of human beings...

another good case is the boy who had his cock burned off in circumsision and was "made a girl" by the doctors but was an out and out total fucking tomboy her entire life and basically figured out that she was indeed born a boy...

 
grizzleb

grizzleb

Well-known member
My tendency towards guff sleeping patterns, and the resulting distortions/fluctuations of tiredeness and wakefulness it brings, which eventually have to be 'sorted' by staying awake till a reasonable hour. Right now I'm fucking knackered and my senses are going a bit nasty. It's like the world has curdled.

The big lump on my ring finger from writing and holding a pen.

Lotta shit.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
petergunn said:
i am not sure how this relates to the gender & nature/nuture sex debate going on, but i do recall reading a few studies done on seperated idenical twins where despite being raised far away from each other in different backgrounds they had very similar life paths...

this is the case MB may have been referring to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Twin_Family_Study
http://science.howstuffworks.com/genetic-science/twin1.htm

Each twin had driven his light-blue Chevrolet to Pas Grille beach in Florida for family vacations.

Both Jims smoked Salem cigarettes and drank Miller Lite beer.

Both Jims had at one time held part-time posts as sheriffs.

Both were fingernail biters and suffered from migraine headaches.

Each Jim enjoyed leaving love notes to his wife throughout the house

it tends to make it's way into psych 101 textbooks...


or this one:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20030413/ai_n12863703/
both study psychology at university and they both even shared the same recurring dream.


newer stuff:

"It's not just our taste in music or books; it goes beyond that. In her, I see the same basic personality. And yet, eventually we had to realize that we're different people with different life histories."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15629096

i think the point of all of this is that a large portion of our personality is genetic and the rest is enviromental and how much is what is something we haven't quite figured out... there is an element of fortune telling (where you dwell on what they're right about rather than what does not apply) about all of this as well as healthy dose of luck (no one ever talks about the twins who have NOTHING in common), but cases like this are good examples of the hardwiring of human beings...

another good case is the boy who had his cock burned off in circumsision and was "made a girl" by the doctors but was an out and out total fucking tomboy her entire life and basically figured out that she was indeed born a boy...

Click to expand...

The migraines thing: definitely genetic. The graphomania (leaving notes around the house) thing sounds possibly genetic, and could be related to seizure activity, along with the migraines. But some of the other things sound like, if you looked at statistics, they're probably just as likely to have occurred by chance. A lot of people drink Miller Lite, especially people in certain key demographics who have it marketed to them.

I have identical twin uncles, and a few other sets in my family, so for me it's hard to get too excited by this stuff, because my experience of twins is colored by being around them alot.

And even though everyone else confuses my uncles and thinks they're so much alike, I see nothing but huge differences between them. Even though they have similar vehicles and such.

I don't doubt that genetics play a huge role in who we are. I just don't think gender and sex are entirely equivalent... but of course, nobody can really draw a line in the sand that says here's where gender stops and sex begins, because culture co-evolved alongside genes to the point where it's all jumbled now.

Eventually, I'm sure people will tease out some of important distinctions. But we're still dealing with a science in its infancy (genetics)...
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
a few musical ones:

djs who fuck up levels on their mix, turning an otherwise nice selection into a continuously maxed out distorted shit fest.

the generic pastoral synth wash on every other GOD DAMNED american or European house / techno record.

members of Sonic Youth trying to make "experimental music"
 
Leo

Leo

Well-known member
zhao said:
members of Sonic Youth trying to make "experimental music"
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i'm not so much into the experimental tracks on sonic youth albums (which should stick to noisy rock), but the stuff they do outside the group is largely decent. thurtson's done some good small-run exp/noise LPs, and i've seen some interesting live exp/improv/sound collage stuff by text of light (lee renaldo/alan licht). not a big solo kim fan, however.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
fucking gold fish. swallowing a piece of food only to spit it out again. and swallow again, and spit out again.

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?!?! IT'S FOOD!! IT'S GOOD!!! FUCKING EAT IT!!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
zhao said:
fucking gold fish. swallowing a piece of food only to spit it out again. and swallow again, and spit out again.

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?!?! IT'S FOOD!! IT'S GOOD!!! FUCKING EAT IT!!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
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Bulimia is a serious condition, you know. :(
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Calculator manufacturers who put the log button right next to the natural log button, just to be sure you make an embarrassingly stupid math error or two on every chemistry test you take.
 
grizzleb

grizzleb

Well-known member
nomadthethird said:
Calculator manufacturers who put the log button right next to the natural log button, just to be sure you make an embarrassingly stupid math error or two on every chemistry test you take.
Click to expand...
Nothing worse than getting something wrong that you actually know, out of haste and carelessness. Annoying as hell.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
grizzleb said:
Nothing worse than getting something wrong that you actually know, out of haste and carelessness. Annoying as hell.
Click to expand...

Bleh, I know... and the worst part is the more stress and pressure you're under the more likely you are to make the silly mistakes... I'm so sick of exams ...
 
4linehaiku

4linehaiku

Repetitive
Jesus, tell me about it. 3 left for me, all over by Monday. Not a moment too soon either, I'm devolving into a gibbering sleep-deprived wreck. Good luck!
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I've been sleeping four hours a night for the last week. have my own chemistry final tonight, then one more paper to finish up, then it's time to lean back and cruise...well, actually I have about 2 dozen journal articles on stress induced transcription of heat shock genes and protein agreggates in neurogenerative diseases to get through in the next week and half so I can familiar with myself with the literature before starting an internship, but I'm kinda looking forward to that. no more f**king reaction kinetics, at least.
 
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