Sir Salman Rushdie

IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
What do we reckon about this then? Does his writing deserve it or has he been rewarded as a champion of free speech? Even if he does deserve it should the powers that be have been more culturally sensitive and avoided honouring him? Maybe they were deliberately relying on a rection in Iran to build up more reasons for an invasion (well, if I didn't say it someone else would have done)?
Is the honours system just an outdated imperial relic anyway?
 
B

bassnation

the abyss
IdleRich said:
What do we reckon about this then? Does his writing deserve it or has he been rewarded as a champion of free speech? Even if he does deserve it should the powers that be have been more culturally sensitive and avoided honouring him? Maybe they were deliberately relying on a rection in Iran to build up more reasons for an invasion (well, if I didn't say it someone else would have done)?
Is the honours system just an outdated imperial relic anyway?
Click to expand...

regardless of what anyone thinks of iran, people cannot be allowed to shut down expression and free speech just because they disagree by the threat of violence. we aren't talking about crude cartoons of mohammed eating pork, rushdies work is nuanced and considered. there is far too much capitulation to religious extremists of all stripes and creeds in this country (cf. that sikh play that was heavily protested against and eventually shut down, the jerry springer play, the recent uproar over sony using a CoE church in a PS3 game, so on and ad infinitum) so its pleasing to see someone in the government recommending rushdie for this.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Sod 'cultural sensitivity' - when have the fundamentalists ever been sensitive to anyone else's culture?
This is just the latest in a very, very long series of events whereby (some) Muslims have made themselves look intolerant, dogmatic and bigoted.
(Of course, as bassnation rightly points out these traits are by no means limited to Muslims, but they do seem to be the most vocal about expressing their intolerances at the moment.)
 
Last edited:
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
This whole thing is bollocks.

The british establishment and the pakistani establishment at loggerheads over a smug novelist.
 
B

bassnation

the abyss
john eden said:
This whole thing is bollocks.

The british establishment and the pakistani establishment at loggerheads over a smug novelist.
Click to expand...

yeah, but i'm sorry, smug or not, you can't have people baying for blood over a book. someone has to stand up to these nutters and its a pity the tory government of the time didn't have the balls to do it, or to even support the man.
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
Also, Rushdie was given hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of protection, wasn't he? It's not like his career is in ruins or anything, is it?
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
My position is, I think that Midnight's Children is a great book, I'm not particularly in favour of the whole honours system but if you are going to make someone a "Sir" because of their contributions to (British presumably) literature then it may as well be him as anyone else.
Given that, it moves on to the question of "cultural sensitivity" and I completely agree with what Bassnation has said - "people cannot be allowed to shut down expression and free speech just because they disagree by the threat of violence" & "you can't have people baying for blood over a book".
When Eden said

"This whole thing is bollocks. The british establishment and the pakistani establishment at loggerheads over a smug novelist."
Click to expand...
It is indeed bollocks but I can't agree that that is caused by the UK honouring him - surely they have the right to do that and the reason that they are at loggerheads is the intolerance of others? Also, whether or not he is smug is totally beside the point isn't it?
 
B

bassnation

the abyss
john eden said:
You can't stop them baying, tho.
Click to expand...

no, but you can take a stand. i don't unequivocally believe in free speech (for nazis anyway) but come on, whos side are you on? the religious fruitcakes or the smug, snide and very rich author with with the staggeringly beautiful wife? hmmm, i'm beginning to see what you mean.

seriously tho, next time it might be your punk fanzine and crudely fashioned effigies of eden they are burning in tehran.
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
bassnation said:
no, but you can take a stand. i don't unequivocally believe in free speech (for nazis anyway) but come on, whos side are you on? the religious fruitcakes or the smug, snide and very rich author with with the staggeringly beautiful wife? hmmm, i'm beginning to see what you mean.

seriously tho, next time it might be your punk fanzine and crudely fashioned effigies of eden they are burning in tehran.
Click to expand...

If my punk fanzine got into trouble like that I would not expect (or accept) a knighthood.

I am all in favour of people baiting religious fruitcakes but it is interesting how selective the govt's support is. For example when was the last time that the entire establishment moblised behind someone who was blashpheming against christianity?

The prosecutions of gay news and the near prosecution of Crass didn't result in any knighthoods or support.
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
Similarly the outcry against the Jerry Springer musical or that play which was critical of sikhs generated extremely muted support for its workers and writers.
 
B

bassnation

the abyss
john eden said:
Similarly the outcry against the Jerry Springer musical or that play which was critical of sikhs generated extremely muted support for its workers and writers.
Click to expand...

true, but its a step in the right direction. they needed support which they didn't get, but maybe after this the tide will turn (being unduly optimistic? i don't know, but its consistent with what i believe so i'm happy to applaud it)
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
john eden said:
Similarly the outcry against the Jerry Springer musical or that play which was critical of sikhs generated extremely muted support for its workers and writers.
Click to expand...

Were either of them as good as The Satanic Verses or Midnight's Children? Anyway, I remember numerous people not giving any support to Rushdie and in fact blaming him for stirring the hornet's nest in the first place.

[Though I absolutely agree that there should be greater support for free speech and condemnation of religious extremism (of whatever stripe). I also disagree that Rushdie was in any way "baiting" religious extremists. He was simply exploring themes which needed to be explored. Surely the very fact of the Ayatollah's fatwa demonstrates that.]
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
john eden said:
I am all in favour of people baiting religious fruitcakes but it is interesting how selective the govt's support is. For example when was the last time that the entire establishment moblised behind someone who was blashpheming against christianity?
Click to expand...

When was the last time a mainstream Christian leader declared that someone should die for insulting their faith?
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Well said, Mr Tea. Does anyone know?

Also, Rushdie at no point insulted the faith of Islam, merely wrote a fictional account about some of it's adherents. I wonder if Khomeini read it. I doubt it, somehow.
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
Mr. Tea said:
When was the last time a mainstream Christian leader declared that someone should die for insulting their faith?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that the leadership being involved makes death any more likely.

If I remember rightly people involved with both of those events received death threats.
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
vimothy said:
Were either of them as good as The Satanic Verses or Midnight's Children? Anyway, I remember numerous people not giving any support to Rushdie and in fact blaming him for stirring the hornet's nest in the first place.
Click to expand...

I don't think artistic merit comes into it. I don't like Crass' track Reality Asylum but I don't think they should have been prosecuted because of its anti-religious sentiment.

Nor do I give a toss about whether or not Rushdie had any inkling about the reaction his work would inspire.

My point is that freedom of speech is a bit of a quagmire and it is only ever protected when that suits the needs of those that have the power to protect it.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
vimothy said:
Also, Rushdie at no point insulted the faith of Islam, merely wrote a fictional account about some of it's adherents.
Click to expand...
I was going to put 'insulted' in inverted commas, like that, meaning 'insulted (in the eyes of the Ayatollah)'. But frankly I couldn't be arsed.
vimothy said:
I wonder if Khomeini read it. I doubt it, somehow.
Click to expand...
Apparently not, according the Wiki article I looked at yesterday.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top