bassline house

mos dan

fact music
well, strange you should single out this element, but perhaps it's more prominant to you than me. the backdrop is this: think about living under two decades of chest-beating US hip hop and three decades or more of reggae/dancehall/ragga, both of which use a lot of location-based references ("Is Brooklyn in the house?!") to derive identity.

This is it - is it not perfectly natural to respond to lyrical signifiers that resonate for you? That's why even within the narrow geographic frame of reference grime works with I (*personally*) get particularly hyped about the tune 'Southside Run Tings', because without being 'endz-ish' it's amazing for me to hear the places I grew up not only namechecked in a song, but namechecked in a GOOD SONG! Yknow, as much as I like 'Morden' by Good Shoes or 'Balham: Gateway to the South' by Peter Sellars, it's not quite the same ;)
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
Is there an amateur psychology topic for this budding Freud to post in? Perhaps my deep rooted manifested hated towards Bassline House is a sign of my troubled relationship with my own mother? Or my own sexual inadequacy?
I don't know, were you interfered with by a bassline when you were a kid?

But seriously, would you be so anti-bassline if it wasn't competing for the same audience as grime?

Re Britishness, Blackdown and Mos Dan have already pretty much said it, but I love the Britishness of grime and it's not because as a middle class provincial brit it somehow makes me cool by association, but because it means a generation of kids are going to be able to say what's on their minds without feeling like they're wearing borrowed clothes. Which is a pretty big step...
 

dssdnt

Member
Two interesting quotes that say some similar, some quite different things:

This is it - is it not perfectly natural to respond to lyrical signifiers that resonate for you? That's why even within the narrow geographic frame of reference grime works with I (*personally*) get particularly hyped about the tune 'Southside Run Tings', because without being 'endz-ish' it's amazing for me to hear the places I grew up not only namechecked in a song, but namechecked in a GOOD SONG! Yknow, as much as I like 'Morden' by Good Shoes or 'Balham: Gateway to the South' by Peter Sellars, it's not quite the same ;)

well, strange you should single out this element, but perhaps it's more prominant to you than me. the backdrop is this: think about living under two decades of chest-beating US hip hop and three decades or more of reggae/dancehall/ragga, both of which use a lot of location-based references ("Is Brooklyn in the house?!") to derive identity.

While the UK has had genres to be proud of, like the acid house movement, electronica, jungle and 2step, few of these were lyrical enough to be able to compete on lyrical identity terms.

Throw in UK hip hop, which with a few exceptions, relied on shameful parody of US flows, and we're not doing that well. Then along comes grime and establishes not just amazing new sonic production possibilities but a unique UK voice, finally, about 20 years after the Sugarhill Gang...
Mos dan explains that namechecking familiar, local places/people can be thrilling and I totally agree - locality has always been an essential part of music-making. I too love the fact that east london kids have their own places/people/lyrical vernacular rather than cartoonish hip-hop bars from across the ocean ...

That being said, the leap from locality to nationality is the potentially arbitrary, lame, and revealing one - nationality is much more synthetic than locality, neighborhood, personal acquaintance with a local tradition, so when a white middle-class UK journalist or producer longs for his national music to become important, it suggests to me that the journalist or producer wants something more than just recognition for a local tradition ... in which case, one suspects that it's no longer about the music, but about some kind of cultural cheerleading or nationalistic competition ... though blackdown begins by trying to say that it's the lyrical content that is british, in the end he admits what every reader of online pop music criticism already knows, namely that british insecurity in the face of the global domination of US hip-hop is both monolithic and subterranean ... that insecurity lurks in the background of virtually everything that gets said these days by serious UK pop music critics ... and while the frustration is understandable, let's be honest, it's absolutely everywhere ... it really does come down to the fact that the Sugarhill Gang weren't 'british' ... or so it would seem reading online the past years ...
 
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Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
I don't know, were you interfered with by a bassline when you were a kid?

But seriously, would you be so anti-bassline if it wasn't competing for the same audience as grime?

There is no competition. I'm not trying to "win" an audience like a prize. I have no interest in what people choose to listen to. I only care about those who choose to listen to Grime.

However my disdain for the nonsense which is "Bassline House" is merely from the fact I actually like UK garage. And whilst Grime and Dubstep are actually innovative offshoots from sparks created by people such as Wookie, Groove Chronicles, Sticky etc, Bassline House is just really really substandard retreads of records I have had in my possession for nigh on 5 or 6 years now.

The fact that 80% of Bassline House records I have ever heard sound like bootlegs of Dexplicit's Bullacake doesn't help. Nor does the fact the other 20% sound like those dark 4/4 tunes EZ was playing around 2001. It has all the artistic merit of Happy Hardcore.

And I say that as a Garage fan who remembers all of these tunes first time round when they were actually good. Not a Grime DJ.
 
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Blackdown

nexKeysound
That being said, the leap from locality to nationality is the potentially arbitrary, lame, and revealing one - nationality is much more synthetic than locality, neighborhood, personal acquaintance with a local tradition, so when a white middle-class UK journalist or producer longs for his national music to become important, it suggests to me that the journalist or producer wants something more than just recognition for a local tradition ... in which case, one suspects that it's no longer about the music, but about some kind of cultural cheerleading or nationalistic competition ... though blackdown begins by trying to say that it's the lyrical content that is british, in the end he admits what every reader of online pop music criticism already knows, namely that british insecurity in the face of the global domination of US hip-hop is both monolithic and subterranean ... that insecurity lurks in the background of virtually everything that gets said these days by serious UK pop music critics ... and while the frustration is understandable, let's be honest, it's absolutely everywhere ... it really does come down to the fact that the Sugarhill Gang weren't 'british' ... or so it would seem reading online the past years ...

i've got no problem with cultural cheerleading: when i started writing about grime culture it had no name and no one out outside of its immediate london participants gave a fuck about it. i like helping new artists out as a journalist - i mean what actual difference does it make if i write another review of 50 Cent or not? whereas when i said 'there's this great 12" called "i luv u" it was at least an original review. The fact that these grime acts were in my city meant i could access them and understand their perspective, but it doesn't mean that i'm insecure about everything from the UK, moreover an acknowledgement of the dominance of US rap & r&b, which even you acknowledge. And as for the nationalistic competition, this is also twaddle, how can you have a meaningful musical 'competition' nation to nation... i mean have you seen Eurovision? Nuff said.
 
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mos dan

fact music
yeah i think cultural cheerleading is fine too, esp in this context: i.e., who else is 'cheering' about it ffs? it's not exactly like the grime cheerleading of a few has led to the exclusion of all other music forms - british or not - from the on or offline media! god i wish.. ;)
 

mos dan

fact music
wow so this went kinda offtopic eh?

can anyone recommend any online stations playing niche/bassline? plz k thx
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
The thing is the vast majority of dance music has absolutely no message or narrative ("put your hands in the aiyyyyahhh"). Like a politician who becomes PM but has no policies nor makes any changes, what is the point of bassline house becoming big like dance music only to have nothing to offer when it gets there? Talkin' loud and saying nothing...

Wasn't what made 'dance' music radical in the first place the departure from having to 'say' something, from attachment to narrative? You seem to be using the same kind of argument that indie/rock fans routinely use.

And, to be honest, music is music, not literature or poetry - the lyrical content of most hip-hop/grime/whatever records is very rarely going to stand up on its own without flow/beats. And that's not the point - even Public Enemy were just sloganeers in terms of pure lyrics alone.
 

mos dan

fact music
bok bok played a bassline set at DOTS in brixton recently, mixing in a few bits of dubstep of all things, and it went down a STORM with the dubstep-orientated crowd - benga was getting pretty into it from what i could see, fwiw

btw did anyone see chantelle writing about niche in the london paper the other week? a sign of its official arrival in london, if ever there was one.
 

straight

wings cru
ive been away for a couple of months and now it seems every time i turn on 1extra its an earful of bassline, even at about 10am. it also seems that all the scummy max power corsa turds that were hammering end of the peer wigan/scouse house/hard house are on it. well, i suppose they need to console themselves over minimal techno pansies like myself nicking trance off them. must admit ive been tempted by massive cd packs that they sell in a shop round the corner from me in sunny manchester while drunk though.

indie nights have been hammering it along with lots of old garage, im absolutely sick of hearing ripgroove every night im out. i think theyve had a garage room at chalk for the last scala played by some 18 yr old turd whos scalped his bros records.
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
My only problem with it is that it sounds so mediocre. Records like this came out 2-a-penny in 2002. Producers like Wire, Faz, Narrows and Sirus made much better 4/4 bassline tracks of the time.

But that is my personal opinion. The scene is successful because it is full of successful parties, much like the funky house scene. I see that Heartbroken has been signed for a reasonable sum. That is off the back of it's huge success in clubs and as such a top seller in independent stores. I think it was number 1 in the 1xtra chart for something ridiculous like 4 months solid. However that doesn't stop the vocal performance of the "singer" being mind bogglingly bad.

A whole load of people like it. And I respect that. But I was actually about during the days of Garage, and I can recognise an inferior copy when I hear one. That's my only problem with it.
 

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
I like it, especially coming out of a hot hatch at 1 in the morning on Arundel Square.

Yes, it's a bastardised version of speed garage but it's alright, and pace Dan I dread to think what will happen when the London crew get hold of it...

@ Martin Dust, have you heard the punjabi variant?

When I get back from holiday I'm going to have a nose round the speed garage shop on west street.
 

mos dan

fact music
My only problem with it is that it sounds so mediocre.

i must confess, that while i've enjoyed a few mixes and a few big singles like heartbroken or whatever, i'm still waiting for something truly astounding to hit me.. and that i rather suspect that it won't. there is a LOT of middling bassline stuff out there.

i like the idea of being able to dance to garage in a club though, because let's face it you haven't been able to in years.. (also i missed its high-point personally cos i was out of ldn/the country alas) and that is most of what i like. for the moment anyway... maybe it will get better/more innovative. maybe it will continue to be nothing more than a fairly middling throwback club music, like logan says. i don't know which side of the fence i fall on tbh: i'm waiting to be convinced either way. that's why i want to go to club vibe, to find out how it works in context!
 

IKoss

Wild Horses
can anyone recommend any online stations playing niche/bassline? plz k thx
kinda spotty with scheduling.. i find mostly on the weekends the stream is up. up-northy flavors.. wideboys, paleface, duggan etc, all have shows up in there...

http://www.basscutz.com/temp_root/idx.php?

and i hear a good bit of fresh tunes on 'freeze' and 'true' lately, as well.


Plus, the anti-bassline arguments seem to have a very patronising, London-centric edge to them.
haha, i know right. seems like nearly all of the pessimism emanates from london, perhaps they are either displeased with not being able to take credit for an obvious success story from within ukg? or they have some stake in the competitive side of things? ..
 

Gabba Flamenco Crossover

High Sierra Skullfuck
i must confess, that while i've enjoyed a few mixes and a few big singles like heartbroken or whatever, i'm still waiting for something truly astounding to hit me.. and that i rather suspect that it won't. there is a LOT of middling bassline stuff out there.

I don't think you will hear standout tunes, because it's probably not about big tunes - it's about the total flow of the mix and maintaining that dancefloor pressure.

To me it looks like a scene that is largely circulated on mix CDs (like hardcore), and vinyl is only bought by actual or potential DJs (like hardcore). The scene totally revolves around DJs, no-one would make a bassline house tune for any other reason than to have a DJ play it (like hardcore). So no-one is straying too far from that template, because a tune that's too original is a bad thing, it disrupts the flow of the mix.

This is extrapolating my memories of the Midlands hardcore scene onto bassline house, but I bet this is pretty near the mark if I know my hardcore genes. I'm moving up to Sheffield soon anyway so I'm looking forward to finding out first hand.

incidentally grime is one of the few things - aside from the england team (sometimes) and other more abstract notions of multiculturalism/the progressive tradition - that i ever feel patriotic about. it strikes me as obvious that blackdown would refer to grime's 'britishness' - though more often i think he and most others are more likely to refer to london specifically. it's not a protectionist thing, it's just... important.

Grime is more West African than it is British - you listen to inner-city music from other countries with large west African populations (France is the best example), grime sounds way more like that than any other type of British music, dubstep included. And actual West African youth music is totally like grime, from the vocal styling to the production methods to the business models. Loads of people in grime are first- or second generation West African immigrants, as opposed to afro-carribean or black British. Grime is the international music of the late 20th century West African diasporia, with some UK-derived trimmings. People call it British because it sounds nothing like American hip hop, which is most people's default model for black music - if they looked towards Africa instead of America, they'd realise Grime is much more international than it's made out to be.
 

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
see that's what i mean. grime is obviously based more on a notion of self-rightouness, and self-endulgence. and sure that also translates to a sense of patriotism. of coarse none of which are bad things.
but most scenes are logically eager to grow.
conversely 'club' music is more about trying to 'spread' or 'share' some sort of vibe.



while i agree here to certain extents. i dont honestly think it's fair to say grime has innovated, beyond inception, in itself, any more than the speed garage-bassline scene.. and culturally, it's just a much different aspect of britain. not more or less important.. perhaps you just relate to 'it' more so? so again i would differ.


http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=34308489

Stop taking ecstasy. You've had too much.

Anyway, the idea of championing grime or dubstep as being "british" - saying that this is one of its best qualities - is absolutely appropriate, and I don't understand the problem with it. Any subcultures in our age that can withstand the forces of the information age and globalization enough to foster a solid identity based on their own surroundings and their own experience deserves the highest of praise.
 

IKoss

Wild Horses
Stop taking ecstasy. You've had too much.
a) i havent done drugs of any sort for a number of years, forget about ecstasy.. b) how would that have anything to do with any of this 'anyway'?...

Anyway, the idea of championing grime or dubstep as being "british" - saying that this is one of its best qualities - is absolutely appropriate, and I don't understand the problem with it.
i dont remember anyone claiming there to be a problem with that aspect of grime-dubstep?

Any subcultures in our age that can withstand the forces of the information age and globalization enough to foster a solid identity based on their own surroundings and their own experience deserves the highest of praise.
perhaps you should lay off the dope.. because here, you comment about subcultures, and the adversities of the information age, and globalization?
when really these very subcultures seem to owe their success and even in some cases, their existence to this information age? ..

also btw, the lot of you always seem so bloody defensive about your position. no one tried to negate the praise due any/all underground british music??
 

mos dan

fact music
Grime is more West African than it is British - you listen to inner-city music from other countries with large west African populations (France is the best example), grime sounds way more like that than any other type of British music, dubstep included. And actual West African youth music is totally like grime, from the vocal styling to the production methods to the business models. Loads of people in grime are first- or second generation West African immigrants, as opposed to afro-carribean or black British. Grime is the international music of the late 20th century West African diasporia, with some UK-derived trimmings. People call it British because it sounds nothing like American hip hop, which is most people's default model for black music - if they looked towards Africa instead of America, they'd realise Grime is much more international than it's made out to be.

That's very interesting, but y'know, you're taking it too far, surely.

People call it British because it sounds nothing like American hip hop

No, people call it British because it's made virtually exclusively in Britain, by British citizens, and uses a lot of British reference points. I can't believe I'm somehow sounding like a zealous xenophobe, because nothing could be further from my attitude/politics, but you know.. I am right here aren't I?

Sick Boy is spot on too - you can't deny grime's local-ness to london/the uk is part of its appeal, even if you're enjoying that local-ness on the other side of the world..

***

BTW I totally hear what you're saying about bassline though (which is after all the topic, haha).
 
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