how to deal with ignorance

I suppose so, and being irritating is not a cardinal sin. Everyone's irritating from time to time.

I have this mate who always tries to present you with your own reasons for 'pretending' to like something or not like something. It's desperately annoying because eventually you have to reach the conclusion that he thinks everyone has exactly the same taste as him and that any deviance from it stems from artifice for a variety of bewildering reasons.

martin said:

not saying thanks when you hold a door open for them (cunts!)

Click to expand...

so you do things for people on the condition they show appreciation? i hold doors open and sleep at night in the knowledge i'm a decent sort, whether they said thanks or not.. sometimes people are 'miles away', in a bad mood or just culturally different - that's their business.

my one major ignorance bug-bare is racism.. i can respect most opinions up to the point it being harmful (e.g. cv's being thrown in the bin because the name 'sounds like a terrorist').. unfortunately for me, most my family are dragged-up racists, i have to deal with their ignorance all the time but i'll never try to convert them..

i rarely converse with someone in a topic they're fanatical about.. pointless..

I would say there's a big difference between inconsideration/antisociability/prejudice (your shoving-blind-people example) and ignorance, which is just a lack of knowledge. I mean, you don't have to have an IQ of 150 and read encyclopeadias for fun to realise that it's good manners to offer your seat to a doddery old person; in fact, if you're not a total idiot, you might even work this one out yourself without having to have it drummed into you by politeness-concious parents.

Ignorance in the straightforward sense of not-knowing-stuff is then only a bad thing if it hampers someone's ability to deal with situatiions they come across, be it taking an exam at school, solving a problem at work or being intersting company to their friends. For example, I'm utterly ignorant on the subjects of football and R&B music, because I have no interest in them. Plenty of other people are ignorant of stuff I find interesting, and that's not a failing on their part, either (although I have to admit to being a bit saddened by people who don't appear to be interested in anything at all).

Anyone ever get the classic line "You'd have to be on drugs to enjoy that!"?

swears said:

Anyone ever get the classic line "You'd have to be on drugs to enjoy that!"?

Click to expand...

Yeah, quite often.

Thing is though, it really, genuinely applies to trance music.

barry_abs said:

my one major ignorance bug-bare is racism.. i can respect most opinions up to the point it being harmful (e.g. cv's being thrown in the bin because the name 'sounds like a terrorist').. unfortunately for me, most my family are dragged-up racists, i have to deal with their ignorance all the time but i'll never try to convert them..

Click to expand...

Ever get a cab ride with a racist driver? Three AM, feeling wrecked, having some twat try to goad you into an argument about asylum seekers, not a fun conversation. They usually want to get a rise out of you, so I just blank them, make them feel embarrassed.

swears said:

Ever get a cab ride with a racist driver? Three AM, feeling wrecked, having some twat try to goad you into an argument about asylum seekers, not a fun conversation. They usually want to get a rise out of you, so I just blank them, make them feel embarrassed.

Click to expand...

Nearest thing to that I've had is a Turkish/Kurdish minicab driver who asked me where I was from, asked me if it was mostly white people that lived there (which is indeed the case) and then asked me if lots of them were racist! Eh? Is that meta-racism, or what?

<derail><derail/>

yes zhao colombia discos fuentes is super-fantastic, merci

sufi said:

yes zhao colombia discos fuentes is super-fantastic, merci

Click to expand...

fantastic record.

swears said:

Ever get a cab ride with a racist driver? Three AM, feeling wrecked, having some twat try to goad you into an argument about asylum seekers, not a fun conversation. They usually want to get a rise out of you, so I just blank them, make them feel embarrassed.

Click to expand...

i usually try to tackle them about it. at some point in the rant they inevitably go on about their grandparents in world war II which is a good point to say "there you go, they fought against racism". of course many people were drafted but thats besides the point in terms of taxi conversations. i think its good to try to put forward a point of view that they hadn't considered. most people aren't evil after all.

That is very noble, bassnation, but I can't be arsed argueing with racists, nothing you say sinks in. You're a "wet liberal who's been brainwashed by the media..." in their eyes.

swears said:

That is very noble, bassnation, but I can't be arsed argueing with racists, nothing you say sinks in. You're a "wet liberal who's been brainwashed by the media..." in their eyes.

Click to expand...

"if you have a racist friend, nows the time for your friendship to end"

i'm not sure i totally agree with just writing people off. in my view there are two kinds of racists - those who are ignorant and just haven't mixed with other races very much - and the second kind who are out and out unchangable bigots.

don't assume that people can't change, or see that their fears are unfounded. cyncism and pessism regarding ordinairy people will ensure that nothing ever changes for the better.

and besides, these sentiments when uttered in public are unacceptable - and therefore need challenging. even if its in a non-confrontational way that stands a better chance of getting through.

I'm in agreement with bassnation and his message of not giving up on people, or dismissing them because of their apparent views on things - e.g. in the areas of racism and ignorance.

I've learnt the same old lesson of "don't judge/assume" when dealing with people enough times now to consistently try and live this idea. It's bloody tough sometimes.

I got one mate who hates rap and thinks it actually can't be categorized as music and that there is no talent in it. I intensely disagree with this.

I don't really care though, because he is a mate, and I'd rather go for pints at the pub with someone who isn't going to bore me to tears with the finer details of the japanese avant-garde noise scene.

(though this doesn't apply to rap so much) I think that people with esoteric tastes should realize them to be just that - esoteric - and get on with it.

as i get older, the only thing i can say ive learned is to pick my battles.

when younger, i LOVED to argue. i would try to find things to argue about just for the sake of arguing. many times, this was merely pointless philisophical discussion (the shape of the universe, the roots of consciousness, etc), but i tended to gravitate toward heated religious discussions. now, if theres one thing i avoid more than any other, its a debate on religion.

i think in most things, such as music, film, art, etc, no matter how much you argue, you can always say "well, theres no accounting for taste". many times it just comes down to opinion, and while you can still have fun and animated discussions on the merits of each person's opinion, in the end i usually surrender and have to say "its a matter of taste as to why you like Rascal Flatts and not, say, jungle".

However, you cant do this in discussions of religion and politics. so, ive pretty much stopped discussing these things, as logical arguments are worthless when it comes down to what you believe (what "good book", whos version in the press, etc).

Freakaholic said:

as i get older, the only thing i can say ive learned is to pick my battles.

when younger, i LOVED to argue. i would try to find things to argue about just for the sake of arguing. many times, this was merely pointless philisophical discussion (the shape of the universe, the roots of consciousness, etc), but i tended to gravitate toward heated religious discussions. now, if theres one thing i avoid more than any other, its a debate on religion.

i think in most things, such as music, film, art, etc, no matter how much you argue, you can always say "well, theres no accounting for taste". many times it just comes down to opinion, and while you can still have fun and animated discussions on the merits of each person's opinion, in the end i usually surrender and have to say "its a matter of taste as to why you like Rascal Flatts and not, say, jungle".

Click to expand...

I too love arguing. But arguments can take many forms. I usually find it best to not try and imagine "winning" or "losing" per se, rather that the point of the argument is to have an argument. It is also useful as it enables you to hone your arguments, to find the flaws in yr own ideas and therefore to strengthen them. It is also fun to sometimes deliberately attempt some form of unholy dialectical synthesis, especially with people whose views are radically opposed to yr own- this is probably one of the few ways you can actually "beat" people, although of course it is actually a different path of action entirely.

Arguing about music often really upsets people I find, and that's why I rarely do so now especially with people whose tastes are more limited (actually- its nothing to do with the taste but how people come to that taste-- the problem comes when they have never actually analysed the reasoning behind their particular predilection, when confronted with that fact they usually become extremely aggressive or upset).

With racists often the best thing is to goad them to the point where even they realise they are talking bollocks. Sometimes this works, but it does depend on them not actually being neo-fascists.

Slothrop said:

Yeah, the thing that pisses me off in these situations isn't someone not liking something, it's when they confidently announce that the whole thing is based on pretentiousness and charlatanry and people tossing out any old shit because they know it'll sell rather than just accept that some people enjoy things that they don't enjoy.

Click to expand...

this is what kills me.