Conspiracies in literature

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
There's a bit in one of the Baroque Cycle books that's a description of an alchemical still as having a copper vessel that terminates in "a snergly tube". I actually laughed out loud at this and had to re-read it to make sure I'd read it right. I love how he's just made up a word but you straight away understand what it means.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I definitely thought Foucault's Pendulum was waaaay better than The Name of the Rose - which in turn was even more better (if I can write such a terrible sentence) than The Island of the Day Before which put me off ever reading Eco again. Would like to check Baudolino though, I think it's been long enough since IotDB that I can forgive him and give him another chance.
But I really enjoyed Q so what do I know?
I also liked it when people suggested that Luther Blisset was Eco under an assumed name and they put out a statement saying "We've got nothing to do with the old wanker".
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
no I've ever never read Anathaem. thought Snow Crash was goofy Sprawl-lite fun, slogged through the endlessness of Cryptonomicon, got about halfway through the first Baroque before giving up on it. will try Anathaem on your recommendation tho.

as far as Eco, let me make an extended, highly iffy metaphor to jungle that we will both appreciate. In the Name of the Rose is a '94 banger, nothing spectacular, just well chopped Amens + nicely EQ'd sub bass. it's quality is in the craft, it's avant-weirdness in jungle's inherent subversion of, yet simultaneous faith, to pop music (or in this case, airport giftshop level historical detective fiction). F's P is drill + bass , aloof + brimming with superiority. except unlike Squarepusher Eco's superiority is justified. (Baudalino is "The Angels Fell" or "Valley of Shadows" or something)
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
What does it achieve beyond leaving me bored

confusing awful with boring. ambitious failures are a helluva lot more interesting than not trying in the first place. honestly personally I like it more/think it works better as straight up historical fiction it more than any of the supposed po-mo stuff. but then I enjoy reading regular historical fiction.
 

slowtrain

Well-known member
Foucault's Pendulum might be better than TNOTR.

It is flawed, and I think a bit overly long (although I guess that is appropriate) but it has some amazing little bits.

Baudolino is a lot of fun but hardly a 'great' book.
 

luka

Well-known member
What brought this on? Did he cut you up at a roundabout recently? Crack onto your girlfriend?

read one of his books. horrible Time magazine outlook on life. cultural imperialist and racist, in a nutshell. suprised droid likes him.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
"Imperialist and racist"? In the books I read it almost seemed like he'd gone out of his way to include a range of admirable, shitty and indifferent characters from all sorts of different cultures.
 
D

droid

Guest
read one of his books. horrible Time magazine outlook on life. cultural imperialist and racist, in a nutshell. suprised droid likes him.

Yeah, I dont get the reference at all. His two earlier books, the Big U and Interface are very USocentric and not great, but thats about it.
 

luka

Well-known member
i read one set in the phillipines have you read that one? thats the one that set me off
 

luka

Well-known member
there one brave strong good hearted nip, he converts to christianity and becomes an american fucking hell! its not my imagination. its full on Time magazine
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
there one brave strong good hearted nip, he converts to christianity and becomes an american fucking hell! its not my imagination. its full on Time magazine

Is there any reason that couldn't happen, though? It's a story. It's not propaganda pamphlet.
 

luka

Well-known member
dont be silly mr tea. have you read the book i mean? whats it called i cant remember?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Would it be better to have an evil sadistic nip who gets off on killing and torturing people and then just melds back into Japanese civilian life after the war's over?
 

luka

Well-known member
i think he has those too. i cant remember. i donated the book to a charity shop i was ashamed to have it in the house. it wasnt just that. it was lots of things. if i still owned it i could give other examples. the way the phillipines is described is very Time too. i just dont like it. it does my head in. it offends my delicate sensibilities.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
dont be silly mr tea. have you read the book i mean? whats it called i cant remember?

Yes, of course I read it. It's called Cryptonomicon, as I'm sure you know.

I just don't think that everything every character does in a book can necessarily be read as a statement of an author's politics or personal morals. And in any case it has unpleasant American characters too. I'm not just sticking up for him because I liked the book, I genuinely think you've got to set out with the intention of sniffing out prejudice to see "cultural imperialism" in it.
 
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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
And for all I know the Philippines might be just like that, I've never been there. Have you?
 

luka

Well-known member
i dont go round tryng to sniff things out. you might not know me in real life but you are familiar enough with me to know i am not the preachy type. i dont go round trying to be radical.
 
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