Roiling football blather

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tom pr

Well-known member
boombox said:
It is less intense and predicated on patience, movement and creativity.
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I very much agree with this, and it's more to do with the attitude to the game we have in England than it is the talents of the players. Like I said a few pages back, with fifteen minutes to do we did nothing but take the ball and smack it in the general direction of the Croatia box, and the commentators were encouraging it! As if that's likely to get you a goal against a patient, well organised international team.

The crowd chanting 'attack attack attack' given half the chance and booing backpasses just sums up the whole backwards attitude. Half the football 'experts' over here didn't acknowledge the value of holding midfielders until Makelele joined Chelsea, for God's sake...
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
"The England players are only good at club level when surrounded by capable foreigners who tend to be better at controlling the ball and play in general."
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OK, that's a better point, I don't think it's right but it could be. At least you're attempting to deal with the facts rather than ignore them.

"I have answered it. You just don't accept my answers."
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Because your answers don't seem to recognise the fact that England are losing to (and drawing with) teams who player for player are much worse. In other words, your answers don't address the situation and are therefore worthless.

"It was a pretty big hole. He talked about a team full of United players after all. I won't look for weaknesses in arguments next time."
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I was talking about the England side in general not on Wednesday. As someone said, it would be equally valid to talk about Chelsea or Liverpool.

"The only proof we have of how those eleven English players would and should do against eleven Croatian players is two matches:"
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Seeing as the whole point of what I'm saying is that England should do better than they did on those occasions that's a(nother) pretty stupid thing to say.

"The international game is different. It is less intense and predicated on patience, movement and creativity."
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It's still football. If Man Utd, Liverpool or Chelsea played Croatia then Croatia would lose. The question is, why can't a team assembled (mainly) from those three sides beat Croatia?

"I was being facetious. I probably shouldn't have been. All things considered."
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The whole time? I guess that explains a lot of what you said.
 
boombox

boombox

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My opinions may be worthless but I don't put them across in an aggressive, condescending or sarcastic manner. I think I should leave before I too succumb to personal attacks.

The whole time? I guess that explains a lot of what you said
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mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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If you replaced the non-English in Man Utd with England team players (the next best English available), the resulting line-up would still lose to Croatia, as the brand new, optimal English Man Utd would = England as it is now.

It's the megabucks foreign whizzes who give the added value to the top English sides and help to make the top Britons' reputations.

Saying that the motley millionaire crews of Chelsea et al would beat Croatia is irrelevant - the best assessment of the quality of English talent is to be made in watching the national team (perform as well as they can do - ie. not very well). Taking the motley crews of the top Premiership teams as your control group is a trifle wrong-headed.

PS - we could have Puskas, Maradona and Pele up front and we would still lose with bottle merchants like James, Robinson and Carson between the sticks (actually, if we could have all three keeping at the same time, we might have a chance)
 
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T

tom pr

Well-known member
Currently watching Derby/Chelsea, and the home crowd are booing their own team and Chelsea every time a) the ball gets played backwards, and b) they keep the ball for more than five passes. No wonder the national team's so far up the shitter with this attitude.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
"It's the megabucks foreign whizzes who give the added value to the top English sides and help to make the top Britons' reputations."
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I don't really see that. I mean, it's plausible but it's just not what I see when I watch football, Gerrard (here we go again) was man of the match on the weekend right? Man Utd struggled without Rooney and Ronaldo - just as you would expect, they're two very good players.

"Saying that the motley millionaire crews of Chelsea et al would beat Croatia is irrelevant - the best assessment of the quality of English talent is to be made in watching the national team (perform as well as they can do - ie. not very well)."
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Well, the thing is, we're talking about the potential of the England side, if you can only talk about the results they've had then what's the point? I mean, every result has happened and is as it should be - is that really what you're saying?

"PS - we could have Puskas, Maradona and Pele up front and we would still lose with bottle merchants like James, Robinson and Carson between the sticks (actually, if we could have all three keeping at the same time, we might have a chance)"
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I reckon that they shouldn't have bothered with a goalie on Wednesday - just realised we were inevitably going to ship goals and put an extra striker on.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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IdleRich said:
Well, the thing is, we're talking about the potential of the England side, if you can only talk about the results they've had then what's the point? I mean, every result has happened and is as it should be - is that really what you're saying?
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One can only claim for so long that poor results are due to under-performance - top performers tend to get good results consistently.

Constantly bleating underachievement also puts the players under unfair pressure, making them play even worse.

Our main problem is not having a decent playmaker to link midfield and attack.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
"One can only claim for so long that poor results are due to under-performance - top performers tend to get good results consistently."
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I'm not claiming that England are a good team (because they're not), I'm saying that they ought to be because they have good players - and I still think that because all the attempts to argue otherwise just don't stack up. A better manager could turn them into a good team.

"Constantly bleating underachievement also puts the players under unfair pressure, making them play even worse."
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That's why they earn ninety grand a week - to deal with that kind of pressure.

"Our main problem is not having a decent playmaker to link midfield and attack."
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That's certainly one of our main problems.
 
D

don_quixote

Trent End
he didnt name him directly and the whole story appears to have disappeared under the radar so he probably didnt say it anyway, but the news reports this morning appeared to claim wenger called him a "misinformed idiot"
 
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don_quixote

Trent End
of course there's now the worrying conclusion where arsenal lose on a saturday and we have shearer looking like dog with two dicks on the telly as if he's been proved right, when in fact he is still a boring moron.

for reference shearer appeared to claim arsenal wouldn't win the league playing pretty football every week. which is possibly the most retarded thing a pundit has ever said. oh hold on, it's football punditry. theyre paid to be fucking morons.
 
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don_quixote

Trent End
oh and whilst we're on arsenal, this is what david moyes thought about the game today:

"It was Arsenal who scored from punts up the pitch today and Everton who passed it around. They scored because of our defending today, not because they played well."

eh? you know a managers position is pretty steady when he can basically say 'we lost because our team played shit'
 
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tom pr

Well-known member
he's not really making excuses though- just telling the story of the match. arsenal took their chances and deserved to win, but the first three were extremely fortuitous and the fourth was when the game was over. and fabregas took an awful dive to get his close mate sent off, but he's always been a prat so no surprises there.
 
jenks

jenks

thread death
Slightly off topic but...

I took my 9 year old to his first Spurs' match on Saturday as a birthday treat. How do I explain to him that he is never likely to see another 6-4 thriller again? Four goals from his favourite striker and five most of our goals down our end - it was like being in a dream. I thought my first Tottenham match would be hard to beat - 5-3 against Ipswich (when they were a force in the land) and Eric Gates got sent off - the Sun headline the next day - Five Bar Gates!

Berbatov played like a dream and I hear today he is making noises about moving on and whilst I would be gutted I cann see why he would want a transfer. After all he goes and scores a hat-trick to then watch comedy capers defending a minute later for us to go 4-3 down. Keane will sorely miss him.:eek:
 
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Lichen

Well-known member
I used to live on Bromley Road, almost beneath one of the stands at White Hart Lane. The noise from 6 home goals would have had us foxed.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
So.... 2-1 but hardly emphatic was it? What surprised me was how much of the ball and territory the Swiss had in the first half. New manager, new era, newish stadium etc with long term places to be won with a good performance and I thought England would be going at them hard but it was a bit of a damp squib really. Maybe it was to do with the new system but in the first half especially they looked like they just couldn't pass the ball, even over short distances. Once again the only player who looked likely to create anything was Joe Cole. I think it says something that he is the nearest we have to a playmaker. Switzerland got a good goal though.
 
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baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
The goals were very well-worked though, I thought. Didn't see enough of the rest of the game to comment.

Not even Capello can work miracles this quickly. If indeed he is the miracle-worker that his CV would have us believe...

Where the fuck was Aaron Lennon in his team? Every time I see him on MotD he's electrifying. Him and Joe Cole should be able to prise even the toughest defence apart. In theory.
 
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