And if the Newcastle example is anything to go by, you can make this cash from mid-table.
And if the Newcastle example is anything to go by, you can make this cash from mid-table.
Very interesting, thank you."That's what I was wondering. But then look at the money David Dein has just made from Arsenal
Thanks hucks, that article is very good indeed - so all this money comes from TV rights then? That's crazy cash for "just being there"! I wonder what the new owners will do to get as much return on investment as the previous owners (who bought cheap and benefited from the TV bonanza) did?
Up= Man U, Arsenal, Villa, Fulham, Blackburn, Sheffield*, Reading*
Same= West Ham, Charlton
Down= the rest
Attendance figures for the top 4 divisions in England (from footballeconomy.com)
Is there a 'football bubble'?
Some positive points:
- England can win games without their talisman
- The Barry-Gerrard connection in midfield (though Barry in a holding role is an O'Neill invention)
- Owen's quality shining through yet again - England's only proven world-class striker. The best thing about having the 'big man up front' is drawing away defenders so Owen has space to work. The poacher may be a dying profession but it's still a noble one, and Owen's numbers speak for themselves
I really hope you make it, Euro 2008 would be much poorer without you, and I'd love Scotland to be there too.
PS Violence should not be tolerated, but seeing Big Phil Scolari lash out at Dragutinovic yesterday made me think a little about where England could be under a foreign coach with some fire in his belly.
Good point. I don't know if they can."I wonder what the new owners will do to get as much return on investment as the previous owners (who bought cheap and benefited from the TV bonanza) did?"
Possibly. I don't think that clubs have done themselves any favours with prices. If they lowered the admission I think that gates might rise again. Charlton have good deals for kids and cheaper tickets for less glamourous games I believe, that is another way forward and it's interesting that they outperformed almost everyone else in terms of keeping their fans in a season where they were relegated."Is there a 'football bubble'?"
Well, that's why everyone is so frustrated I guess."Realistically though, as things stand, England are certainly not among the world's top 10 teams and would probably struggle to make even top 10 in Europe. Mind-boggling if you think about it, given the available resources."
Well, I guess what I'm saying is that he keeps doing the same thing against different teams so one day he is going to play the team who is vulnerable to it. I would see it as genius if he varied his strike force to find the weakness of each team but that's not what he's been doing."Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. (Einstein, attributed)"
Where are you from as a matter of interest Redcrescent?
The hoop-la comes from the expectations being so expeertly lowered during McLaren's previous year in charge. Israel were dreadful - hard to imagine them as the side that got so many good draws in recnet years. Russia are an OK team - neither great nor poor - but they had two 15 min spells (one between 1st and 2nd goals, the other at the star of the 2nd half) where they were clearly the better team.
Tactical genius? Not sure how many people have actually said this (though if you want nuance, don't go to the BBC's old boys' act anymore), but I do think McLaren showed some courage to re-engage a national joke because he thought he'd team up well with Owen. The easy (Sven) option would've been Johnson or (god'elp us) Smith.
I think Barry was ace, actually - barely a misplaced pass all match. Again, credit McLaren with sporting his resurgence under O'Neill rather than opting for big money Carrick or old warhorse P Neville, as I'm sure Sven would've done.
We'll see, but I disagree. Qf in the last three major tournaments and four consecutive 3-0 competitive wins says otherwise, even if none of them were against powerhouses.Realistically though, as things stand, England are certainly not among the world's top 10 teams and would probably struggle to make even top 10 in Europe. Mind-boggling if you think about it, given the available resources.
Incidentally, how often did Sven pick a line-up for an important game featuring players from outside of the big four, with Spurs and Newcastle as back up?*
I know many of the changes were forced on McLaren, but these two games featured starting roles for Villa, City & Wigan, plus two Everton subs.
*Not a trick question - I don't know the answer.
Man I hate rugby....er, anyway
True. When Heskey was recalled I was certainly one of those who laughed."I do think McLaren showed some courage to re-engage a national joke because he thought he'd team up well with Owen. The easy (Sven) option would've been Johnson or (god'elp us) Smith."
I agree with you here as well. There has been a common problem of obedience or lack of imagination from the England managers of recent years in that they only seem to look at big money players or those at big clubs. McClaren and Sven have both been guilty of this but maybe this is the begining of a change. I hated it when Crouch suddenly getting called up as soon as he moved to Liverpool, had he magically become a better by moving house? At the same time as he was playing and not scoring Bent was banging in everything and being ignored, presumably because he was at a smaller club. For me, if you're scoring twenty goals for a team that gets relegated that ought to be a plus point. I could probably get a few if I played upfront for United (this hypothesis is admittedly unlikely to be put to the test) but getting loads of goals when the rest of the team is rubbish is a real achievement."Again, credit McLaren with sporting his resurgence under O'Neill rather than opting for big money Carrick or old warhorse P Neville, as I'm sure Sven would've done."
To be fair to McC, some key men have been out injured at crucial moments, but a great team is characterized by the interchangeabilty of its parts without compromise of its structure.
And when, when I wonder will England find a quality keeper?
(Meanwhile, the England women's team draw world champions Germany 0:0 and are well en route to the World Cup final)
For a look at how it could (and should IMHO) be done, check Dunga's selections for the Brazil squad lately, including the one that thrashed a star-studded Argentina side at the Copa America final 3:0.
Problem with all these 'top' Champions League players is they bring that cautious culture with them. England played these games with a fair measure of freedom. On top of that, when you have to be a Top Four player to be in the England team, it breeds the complacent comfort zone attitude that has been so endemic, esp under Sven.
I mean, if your job is to nominate an England squad on the basis of names only, any 8 year old can do that in a flash. And if the pressure on an England coach to get things right is strong, imagine what the Brazil coach must feel each time he announces the team sheet. And here's Dunga picking young players that ply their trade in the Russian and Ukranian leagues, simply because he feels thay are going to do the best job. Sure, CSKA Moscow and Shakhtar Donetsk might play in the Champions League qualifying stages some years, but most of their league matches are not even Championship level.
I think that if a coach has a consistent policy of naming only the hungriest and most in-form players, regardless of names, hierarchy, history and the media, his success will speak for itself and he will be vindicated.
I'm surprised that my club, Spurs, haven't been mentioned in all of this. It seems to me that the main motivation for the board to behave as shabbily as they have to Jol is that they want the club to be top 4 and thus make them much more attractive in the market come the summer, by that time they will ahve secured planning permission to turn the ground by 90 degrees and expand.
Quite why they then let Jol spend £40+million and then not give him a chance to perform, i dunno.
As to England - both opponents were a bit poor but plastic pitch and all that may well make a difference in Russia. I think Barry was the real pick over the two games - the crowd in the pub shouted 'You're so shit, we can bring Neville on'. Still cannot see what Joe Cole really brings to the mix - step overs that never actually convince, profligate in the pass and only redeemed by a flash goal every now and then. Owen looks good but was unmarked for both goals on Wednesday.
The thing is though is that in the past we would ahve choked but at least we held it together and got the results - McLaren still looks like the coach driver rather than the coach and i ahve no faith in him bringing the best out of players like Rooney, Gerrard and Lampard. SWP needs to go away and remember how to cross the ball and we need to hope Lennon comes back fit and fast to give us genuine width.
BTW - shouldn't this be two different threads?
Yeah agreed, the long ball to the big man is ok as a plan b or preferably even plan c but it shouldn't be the tactic that a team with England's players defaults to."I get you, but it's not like other coaches don't watch England games and have McClaren's tactics booklet all figured out within minutes. If your repertoire is limited to 'long ball to the big man' (which only works if you have someone with Owen's finishing skills to capitalize on a loose ball) and 4-5-1 or 4-4-2, I'm afraid it won't get you very far - a team with a halfway disciplined defense will murder you on the break."
Well, I'm English obviously. I'm not a big supporter of clubs as such but as far as it goes my allegiance is to Manchester United. To be honest I prefer playing to watching."My dad is Austrian, my mum is Spanish and I live in football-mad Mexico. You?"
Not sure it's that, I think it's just a complete lack of imagination."So OTM. Why is this really - coaches caving in to pressure from the tabloids?"
I think you have to take everything in to consideration including the quality of the opposition but I think it goes way too far to say that you can't play for England if you're not in the Champions' League. You can't be so inflexible. When Greece won the European Cup they had less players in the champions' league than any of the other sides and you might argue that they were the freshest side in the tournament. Another non-champions' league player who did well was Rooney who was with Everton at that point."There are legit concerns that the Champions League is where it's at, and that you need testing against the best at club level and you won't get that playing for Man City (much as I love him, I'd be nervous about an England team feat Micah Richards against the likes of Kaka or Riquelme just now). But it's also partly a product of celeb culture, to some extent, and perhaps managerial cowardice - you don't look so stupid if your flop striker was deemed worthy of £10m by one of the best mangers in the country."
It's blown up right in their faces really. They've been completely exposed and left him as a dead man walking. I always think it's ridiculous to fire someone that early in the season anyway but the way they tried to go about it was particularly stupid."I'm surprised that my club, Spurs, haven't been mentioned in all of this. It seems to me that the main motivation for the board to behave as shabbily as they have to Jol is that they want the club to be top 4 and thus make them much more attractive in the market come the summer, by that time they will ahve secured planning permission to turn the ground by 90 degrees and expand.
Quite why they then let Jol spend £40+million and then not give him a chance to perform, i dunno"
Yeah, sorry about that."BTW - shouldn't this be two different threads?"
Any new nuggets of wisdom after the weekend games?
New speculation on the possible replacement of Martin Jol by Juande Ramos in the Guardian today, I just cannot see this happening to be honest. Can the Spurs board really be so dumb, and would Ramos leave a Sevilla side equipped to challenge for (and win) serious silverware again this year?
Re. different threads - "the best bits on Dissensus are derailed threads" and all that, but it'd be helpful. Anyone up for making an EPL thread and a separate one on football politics etc.?
Well I didn't see that coming.