Logic 8 is out
- Thread starter Grievous Angel
- Start date
hint
party record with a siren
borderpolice
Well-known member
Ducking is a special case of sidechaining. reduces the volume when another input is maxing, e.g. like the inverse of when you trigger a noise gate with the side chain. not sure how you can use it w/o sidechaining.
borderpolice
Well-known member
noise that evolves over time in a way that humans perceive as somewhat rhythmic (of course white noise evolves itself, indeed it's by definition morphing all the time, but the evolution of noise is so complicated that the human ear only hears ... white noise, i.e. the human brain cannot determine a pattern. what i use instead of white noise is something like rainfall which has a very distinct rhythm. or i put a slightly syncopated drum pattern like x...x..x..x.x. on a side chain and use it to trigger amplitude variations in the background noise.
Alledgedly, the Basic Channel/ R&S/ guys master via cassettes to get a nice analog noise in the background.
borderpolice
Well-known member
Thanks. If this is correct, the difference between express and pro is much smaller than before. given that pro 8 is quite cheap now, what's the point of express?
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Sidechaining is really a function of a particular effect, as long as the routing scheme of the host is flexible enough it shouldn't be a problem. That list doesn't say that Express lacks sidechaining but if it does there are some plugins around that provide extra routing possibilities.
borderpolice
Well-known member
I don't know what you mean by "Sidechaining is really a function of a particular effect". Side chaining is a form of routing scheme. One of the things that bothered me most about Express 7 was that it was impossible to route so as to sidechain. What made me switch to Pro 7 was the crippled ESX24, Ultrabeat, ES2 (what a sweet synth) and lacking sidechaining. All this seems to be fixed in Express 8!
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Oh come on, you know exactly what I mean. My post makes perfect sense. Sidechaining is something that a particular effect supports - it has a sidechain channel. The question is whether the host supports felxible enough routing, as we agree. I don't know for sure if Express 8 does but I was suggesting that there are ways around that if it doesn't.
Does 'lack of sidechaining' mean 'it can't do the routing', or does it mean 'the built in compressor doesn't have a sidechain channel'?
Last edited:
borderpolice
Well-known member
ok, now i get it. in express 7 you could route everything to busses (i think you only had 6 busses, not enough but ok). but the plug-ins didn't lethave a side-chain input. So the latter.
mate, logic 8 is the tits,
every time i open i lose about three hours.
they've totally sorted out the interface and made it way less gash and more intuitive. They seem to have ransacked loads of other DAW's an nicked all the good bits.
The midi sounds awesome so rich and full in comparison to reason.
its all about ultra beat, such a dope plugin! plus I'm loving a bit of impulse reverb action.
every time i open i lose about three hours.
they've totally sorted out the interface and made it way less gash and more intuitive. They seem to have ransacked loads of other DAW's an nicked all the good bits.
The midi sounds awesome so rich and full in comparison to reason.
its all about ultra beat, such a dope plugin! plus I'm loving a bit of impulse reverb action.
if you don't like Cubase then
your not using it properly imo
I don't use it but...its got a slight colouration to it that reminds me of saturation...well in the right hands
I can usually tell when most tracks are made on Logic . it has this really dry, bland, smoothed out digital sound that is like...the twins from the last Big Brother, like beans on toast, like...a girl with no backoff lol
but maybe that's in the wrong hands too
plus it takes too long to get going - that's why I like FL still. it can also sound really cheap and nasty or maaaad clean...you just gotta know how to tweak and use it INDEPTH but when you can...your flyin'
your not using it properly imo
I don't use it but...its got a slight colouration to it that reminds me of saturation...well in the right hands
I can usually tell when most tracks are made on Logic . it has this really dry, bland, smoothed out digital sound that is like...the twins from the last Big Brother, like beans on toast, like...a girl with no backoff lol
but maybe that's in the wrong hands too
plus it takes too long to get going - that's why I like FL still. it can also sound really cheap and nasty or maaaad clean...you just gotta know how to tweak and use it INDEPTH but when you can...your flyin'
Last edited:
Amplesamples
Well-known member
Evolultion, not revolution
I've been using Logic since version 6. Before then I was using Cubase, and years back before that I was using Notator on the Atari ST (along with Octamed on the Amiga 500).
I haven't used the new version of Logic yet, but it seems that the features that are included are not a massive leap forward in terms of creativity, but are great for workflow. For example, it's great the Logic has sample-accurate editing in the arrange page, but it seems weird that it was left out all these years.
I use Reason for sequencing beats, and I rewire every sound into Logic to get full control. I've got some great results doing it this way. I don't have a problem with the whole 'Rewire sound' - surely it depends on the sounds you use?
The problem I have with Logic is the EXS24 sampler - apparently this has had some little adjustments, but nothing amazing. Setting up instruments in EXS24 is a huge pain - which is why I build beats in Reason. I also use Renoise to sequence drums - with Logic the process is so laborious, in Renoise you can get going really quickly and creatively.
Thats pretty much how I work. The whole MIDI note editing thing in Reason, is I think, lacking in comparison to Logic. It's great when you're working on a laptop and you're just engrossed in one screen in Reason, but MIDI editing is such a pain, as is recording. Why is there no count-in on Reason? Or am I being really thick?
When you talk about moving sounds out of time, do you mean as in delaying one side of a stereo signal? I do that with some instruments - you get a 'doubling' effect. A small delay between left/right tricks your ears into thinking the sound is being played in a bigger space - this is how reverb works.
Oh yeah check out my new blog if you're into music, technology etc. This is my first one so any feedback is greatly appreciated
I've been using Logic since version 6. Before then I was using Cubase, and years back before that I was using Notator on the Atari ST (along with Octamed on the Amiga 500).
I haven't used the new version of Logic yet, but it seems that the features that are included are not a massive leap forward in terms of creativity, but are great for workflow. For example, it's great the Logic has sample-accurate editing in the arrange page, but it seems weird that it was left out all these years.
I use Reason for sequencing beats, and I rewire every sound into Logic to get full control. I've got some great results doing it this way. I don't have a problem with the whole 'Rewire sound' - surely it depends on the sounds you use?
The problem I have with Logic is the EXS24 sampler - apparently this has had some little adjustments, but nothing amazing. Setting up instruments in EXS24 is a huge pain - which is why I build beats in Reason. I also use Renoise to sequence drums - with Logic the process is so laborious, in Renoise you can get going really quickly and creatively.
Thats pretty much how I work. The whole MIDI note editing thing in Reason, is I think, lacking in comparison to Logic. It's great when you're working on a laptop and you're just engrossed in one screen in Reason, but MIDI editing is such a pain, as is recording. Why is there no count-in on Reason? Or am I being really thick?
When you talk about moving sounds out of time, do you mean as in delaying one side of a stereo signal? I do that with some instruments - you get a 'doubling' effect. A small delay between left/right tricks your ears into thinking the sound is being played in a bigger space - this is how reverb works.
Oh yeah check out my new blog if you're into music, technology etc. This is my first one so any feedback is greatly appreciated
Grievous Angel
Beast of Burden
Nothing beats Reason for speed of beat-making (except rebirth!), I love it. The new one is good, sequencer is much better but I found frustrating yesterday...
I have obtained Logic. Haven't had time to get into it, too busy with work / album, but may do some mastering in it soon...
Be interested to hear how to get cubase to do proper groovy beats, especially grime - I've wasted literally years trying to make it work properly, always comes out stiff and funkless and nothing like dem 2. i think itmay be better on pc.
I have obtained Logic. Haven't had time to get into it, too busy with work / album, but may do some mastering in it soon...
Be interested to hear how to get cubase to do proper groovy beats, especially grime - I've wasted literally years trying to make it work properly, always comes out stiff and funkless and nothing like dem 2. i think itmay be better on pc.
Last edited:
Amplesamples
Well-known member
Drum machine
What I always found funny is that Mac OSX hardly has any drum-machine plugins. There's iDrum, and I think that's it.
Although I sometimes play beats in on keyboard, I like the old-skool Redrum in Reason - there's a way of working there for me that seems much more enjoyable and immediate. And the way that you can route fx and stuff from the back - much quicker than in Logic - even if I end up eventually Rewiring it.
I love the old fashioned drum machine method - I've got an old Korg Electribe EM-1 - for me it's a much more creative way of playing them in. I had the idea of playing that unit live - there's a recording I've got somewhere of me and Romvelope from adaadat playing at Resonance FM, and I'm playing the EM-1 live. Loads of fun (maybe for me more than the listener). But how to get people to a gig where there's a man just playing a groovebox?
How do other people program their drums? By the way grievous, love your Dubstep Sufferah series.
What I always found funny is that Mac OSX hardly has any drum-machine plugins. There's iDrum, and I think that's it.
Although I sometimes play beats in on keyboard, I like the old-skool Redrum in Reason - there's a way of working there for me that seems much more enjoyable and immediate. And the way that you can route fx and stuff from the back - much quicker than in Logic - even if I end up eventually Rewiring it.
I love the old fashioned drum machine method - I've got an old Korg Electribe EM-1 - for me it's a much more creative way of playing them in. I had the idea of playing that unit live - there's a recording I've got somewhere of me and Romvelope from adaadat playing at Resonance FM, and I'm playing the EM-1 live. Loads of fun (maybe for me more than the listener). But how to get people to a gig where there's a man just playing a groovebox?
How do other people program their drums? By the way grievous, love your Dubstep Sufferah series.
bnek
Well-known member
real-time, turning quantize on & off for certain elements. set up a 2 or 4 bar loop and play one or two parts at a time then overdub. id guess most people work in a similar way?
i tend not to use swing. i also think its worth having some kind of 'pad' controller for entering percussion parts. most hardware sequencers (not step-sequencers) do all this much more intuitively but if you set up your controller to use the transport controls it can be just as quick.
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
Interesting. This has got to be some function of how the look and feel and workflow of Cubase interact with your creative process, afaik there's no technical reason that any two modern DAWs shouldn't be able to produce essentially identical results, bundled software / built in plugins aside.
hint
party record with a siren
Tactics said:
Nah!
Cubase has some kind of built-in soft clip protection for clumsy engineers, I think.
That might be what you're hearing.Do you mean drum machines or samplers suited to drum programming?
DRUM MACHINES:
Microtonic - is amazing! Programmed by one of the original instrument developers for Reason.
More "traditional":
Audio Realism ADM
D16 Nepheton
Waldorf Attack - cheap!
DRUM SAMPLERS:
FXpansion Guru
Native Instruments Battery
Slothrop said:
Exactly. It might be easier to get certain results using particular sequencers, but there's nothing to stop you doing anything in particular in any of the main sequencers. Particularly when it comes to something as fundamental as "groove".
Last edited:
Amplesamples
Well-known member
I agree - what it comes down to with the major sequencers is workflow.
I like programming beats in Reason and Renoise because it's quick - its immediate, and I can set up new drum kits painlessly. I daresay I could do the same in Logic, but it would take far longer.
For recording in synthy parts though, Logic is far better - all the automation stuff is wicked.
Some styles are so dependent on the workflow, that it can be really difficult to do them in certain sequencers.
With some stuff such as breakcore, I would say it's a major headache to program beats in Logic - snare rushes and stuff are really difficult to do in Logic convincingly - you can do it, but a tracker is much more suited to styles such as breakcore.
So while there shouldn't be any differences programming drums in different apps, there always will be - to some extent the technology can dicate the style you work in. That's why so many hip-hop guys used (and probably still use) MPC stuff. I don't think its controversial to say that many classic records would sound different without that particular piece of kit.
I like programming beats in Reason and Renoise because it's quick - its immediate, and I can set up new drum kits painlessly. I daresay I could do the same in Logic, but it would take far longer.
For recording in synthy parts though, Logic is far better - all the automation stuff is wicked.
Some styles are so dependent on the workflow, that it can be really difficult to do them in certain sequencers.
With some stuff such as breakcore, I would say it's a major headache to program beats in Logic - snare rushes and stuff are really difficult to do in Logic convincingly - you can do it, but a tracker is much more suited to styles such as breakcore.
So while there shouldn't be any differences programming drums in different apps, there always will be - to some extent the technology can dicate the style you work in. That's why so many hip-hop guys used (and probably still use) MPC stuff. I don't think its controversial to say that many classic records would sound different without that particular piece of kit.
nomos
Administrator
I'm still undecided about this. Not sure if it's worth investing in it or getting better at using what I've got. Currently, I do all my rhythm programming in Reason because I like the Redrum interface and the swing. Then I can Rewire those bits through Live and add loops, layers, etc. But I find the Rewire business really tedious, I hate the Reason sequencer, and I want more control over each individual drum sound at the source, not over in another program. So I'm wondering if Logic, with Ultrabeat would be a better all-in-one option, especially if Logic has some equivalent of Live's elastic audio for loops. Then again, if it means spending months getting up to speed on a new way of working it might be better to make do with what I've got.
Just thinking aloud but if anyone has advice...
Just thinking aloud but if anyone has advice...
Amplesamples
Well-known member
I think your setup is probably really good - what I would do is minimise the inconveniences.
You might already be doing this, but maybe you could set up a Reason template with all the outputs from redrum going straight to the hardware interface as a slave. Save this template and always start from there. Maybe you could do the same with Live? You probably already do this, but there you go.
Ultrabeat has been changed for new Logic, but my experience of it from Logic 7 was that it was interesting, but a totally steep learning curve. IMHO, the interface is a mess, and makes no sense - it's supposed to be a semi-modular synth, but it seems overcomplicated to me. It will take a while to get used to Ultrabeat. I discovered Ultrabeat before I started using Reason, and I just didn't use it at all, it seems confusing. I confess to not reading the manual properly, but even so, I didn't read the manual for Redrum, because it's intuitive. Ultrabeat to me seems counter-intuitive, very uncharacteristic for an Apple product.
You might like it, but make sure you try it out, as it could be an expensive mistake. Apple does have an equivalent of elastic audio, it's called AppleLoops - it's a little fiddly, but it is good.
What you have to think about is the time and frustation that you might sacrifice in the short-term for the long-term frustration that you've been experiencing already. I think the best thing you can do is try Ultrabeat out somewhere - go to an Apple store. It could be the answer, or it could be a bigger headache.
You might already be doing this, but maybe you could set up a Reason template with all the outputs from redrum going straight to the hardware interface as a slave. Save this template and always start from there. Maybe you could do the same with Live? You probably already do this, but there you go.
Ultrabeat has been changed for new Logic, but my experience of it from Logic 7 was that it was interesting, but a totally steep learning curve. IMHO, the interface is a mess, and makes no sense - it's supposed to be a semi-modular synth, but it seems overcomplicated to me. It will take a while to get used to Ultrabeat. I discovered Ultrabeat before I started using Reason, and I just didn't use it at all, it seems confusing. I confess to not reading the manual properly, but even so, I didn't read the manual for Redrum, because it's intuitive. Ultrabeat to me seems counter-intuitive, very uncharacteristic for an Apple product.
You might like it, but make sure you try it out, as it could be an expensive mistake. Apple does have an equivalent of elastic audio, it's called AppleLoops - it's a little fiddly, but it is good.
What you have to think about is the time and frustation that you might sacrifice in the short-term for the long-term frustration that you've been experiencing already. I think the best thing you can do is try Ultrabeat out somewhere - go to an Apple store. It could be the answer, or it could be a bigger headache.