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Thread: Drum/rhythm knowledge rolling thread

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    Very interesting. I think I know what you mean, but can you give examples of Detroit trax that do this, sothat I can have a listen for this 'trick'?
    Not of the top of my head. there's loads though. i'll go through my archieves tonight and find some.

  2. #32

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    forgot about people doing that - the first tune on ames essential mix from 2006 does this to great effect.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistersloane View Post
    Great thread. Does anyone know what the beat definition of a two-step track would be?
    2step (garage) takes the general kick snare kick snare pattern but it's the detail and embelishment that make it funky.

    firstly you often overlay four offbeat hats (so shifted an eighth from the main four beats in the bar), that date from house/techno. These are often pitchbent down between the third and fourth beat

    Then you swing the hats that fall outside of the main four beats and four-offbeats. Then there's loads of other embelishments you can add, double kicks around the first beat, or delay the kick on the third, by an eighth. these can be pitchbent in places too.

    Or you can push the second snare on the fourth back by an eighth.

    And you can fill the hole between the second and third beat with additional percussion.

    All that said, i can do all these and more but somehow geniuses like El-B make it sound yet funkier by some magic tricks that have decived my ears for the best part of seven years... but no mind, it makes me happy that there will always be some more drum magic out there to learn.
    Last edited by Blackdown; 24-09-2007 at 02:05 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdown View Post
    All that said, i can do all these and more but somehow geniuses like El-B make it sound yet funkier by some magic tricks that have decived my ears for the best part of seven years...
    Same here, i've been trying to get my tunes as funky as my fav 2-step garage for a while, but not quite getting it. It's not just the drum programming, every note that one sings/plays is also a rhythmic event, and is a key part of the rhythm, contributing to funkyness.

  5. #35

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    someone was talking in another thread on here about 2-step, and saying that producers would take rhythms, swing them, bounce them down and then put them back into the music program and swing them again...

    i'll try and find the thread.

    EDIT: here.

    Down the page a bit.
    Last edited by sodiumnightlife; 24-09-2007 at 01:47 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by sodiumnightlife View Post
    someone was talking in another thread on here about 2-step, and saying that producers would take rhythms, swing them, bounce them down and then put them back into the music program and swing them again... here.
    i doubt that much 2-step rhythm is Re-Cycle'd from other music. The rhythmic feel of the genre is decidedly non-human.

  7. #37

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    I wasn't exactly sure what they were talking about...just passing the word.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdown View Post

    All that said, i can do all these and more but somehow geniuses like El-B make it sound yet funkier by some magic tricks that have decived my ears for the best part of seven years... but no mind, it makes me happy that there will always be some more drum magic out there to learn.
    Don't! It was particularly El-B I was thinking of, I keep fucking trying to get what he does and it's just really elusive, thanks for that about 2-step.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by sodiumnightlife View Post
    forgot about people doing that - the first tune on ames essential mix from 2006 does this to great effect.
    One of the tunes from the recent Gui Boratto does this at the start also- it has some elements in a 4/4 pattern, some doing triplet time on top, then the beat kicks in against both patterns, really confusing, but suddenly making the tripletish pattern cohere into the rhythmical make-up, and a great moment! I'd like to hear some tracks which do that kind of shifting mid-tune too, presumably that would mean subtly shifting the bar line (ie- having the last bar of the old pattern shorter or longer by a beat or so?)

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by gek-opel View Post
    One of the tunes from the recent Gui Boratto does this at the start also- it has some elements in a 4/4 pattern, some doing triplet time on top, then the beat kicks in against both patterns, really confusing, but suddenly making the tripletish pattern cohere into the rhythmical make-up, and a great moment! I'd like to hear some tracks which do that kind of shifting mid-tune too, presumably that would mean subtly shifting the bar line (ie- having the last bar of the old pattern shorter or longer by a beat or so?)
    a friend of mine, the best DJ i know, alas he has given up on making music, used to beatmatch incoming tunes on the off-beat or backbeat. With the right selection of tracks, this can be amazingly funky!

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdown View Post
    2step (garage) takes the general kick snare kick snare pattern but it's the detail and embelishment that make it funky.

    firstly you often overlay four offbeat hats (so shifted an eighth from the main four beats in the bar), that date from house/techno. These are often pitchbent down between the third and fourth beat

    Then you swing the hats that fall outside of the main four beats and four-offbeats. Then there's loads of other embelishments you can add, double kicks around the first beat, or delay the kick on the third, by an eighth. these can be pitchbent in places too.

    Or you can push the second snare on the fourth back by an eighth.

    And you can fill the hole between the second and third beat with additional percussion.

    All that said, i can do all these and more but somehow geniuses like El-B make it sound yet funkier by some magic tricks that have decived my ears for the best part of seven years... but no mind, it makes me happy that there will always be some more drum magic out there to learn.
    Following on from Blackdown... Some have what I would call "flat" snares, ie on the expected (in terms of backbeat syncopation) 2 and 4 beat... and really swung hi hats/shakers (ie- subtly fluid in terms of placement just before or after the quantised position by a tiny amount to give a live-ish feel). But the best stuff (and this is something which Grime certainly used to excel at) has them at funky angles, slightly before or after the expect 2 and four, giving it this kind of mutated cubist snap effect. The best dubstep also does this, and it enables crazy syncopation, especially if the music (basslines especially) is synced up to coincide rhythmically with the "off"-placement of kicks and snares, that really amps up the jitteryness (almost taking it into jazz territory of skittering anti-funk).

    Another key part of 2-step is having space or gaps in the beat and music, little stops which create an additional level of unexpected rhythm-drive. Combined with the "off" snares and basskicks this makes this kind of music unbelievably fascinating.

    But really its all in the shakers/hi hats, they are the stitching that ties the rhythm together, it stands or falls on how well they interact with the rest of the beat, giving it space and a sense of drum-narrative, connecting the kick to the snare in that extra-itchy manner... Theoretically a half step pattern ought to give even more space and room for hi-hat patterning (given the additional space involved) but not many have followed up this angle...

  12. #42
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    Im loving this thread by the way.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by borderpolice View Post
    i doubt that much 2-step rhythm is Re-Cycle'd from other music. The rhythmic feel of the genre is decidedly non-human.
    I'd say that it's the sounds rather than the rhythms that give this impression. 2 Step drum sounds are usually pitched and cropped in un-natural ways. Fills and ghost notes might use completely different sounds to the main snare sound in 2 Step, for example, whereas a drummer would have to stick to using one drum.

    I reckon that most 2 Step drum patterns would start to sound a lot more human if you switched the kits with real world drum sounds. It would probably sound rubbish, mind.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by gek-opel View Post
    But really its all in the shakers/hi hats, they are the stitching that ties the rhythm together, it stands or falls on how well they interact with the rest of the beat, giving it space and a sense of drum-narrative, connecting the kick to the snare in that extra-itchy manner...
    All true. One ought to mention the role of delay as well. It gives the rhythm track that extra bounce and -- through its regularity -- a certain structure that allows other elements to go crazy. Of course the delay parameters can be fixed so as to give interesting and subtle syncopation/swing.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by hint View Post
    I'd say that it's the sounds rather than the rhythms that give this impression. 2 Step drum sounds are usually pitched and cropped in un-natural ways. Fills and ghost notes might use completely different sounds to the main snare sound in 2 Step, for example, whereas a drummer would have to stick to using one drum.

    I reckon that most 2 Step drum patterns would start to sound a lot more human if you switched the kits with real world drum sounds. It would probably sound rubbish, mind.
    a 2-step drum kit sounds distinctive, that's true: bass drum with almost all bottom eq'ed out, snare & hats enveloped for maximal impulsiveness. The airyness and sense of space mentioned upthread. It would be easy to take a good 2-step pattern and let the drum computer use "soft rock sounds". any of the resident producers wanna do the test and tell us of the results? [I can't because can;t do decent 2-step rhythms!]

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