bloody miserable

grizzleb said:

I agree with that about mdma, I think it affects your brain chemistry too much and if you're the type of person who needs anti-depressants then the problems associated with that can only be greater. The mdma may even be playing a part if you're taking it regularly enough. I used to know people who would take it every weekend, I could only go 2 weekends in a row before it left me feeling rough as old boots and a bit mental. Wonder what someone who has been doing it every weekend for years must feel like.

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Indeed, it all depends on your own chemical balance and serotonin levels.
I'd recommend for anyone feeling blue or anyone taking MDMA to get some 5HTP capsules from their local health shop. I know some fools pop one when they start to come down... but if you pre-load on them the day before and for a few days after you'll generally feel a lot better.

My own experiences led me to discover that I couldn't take pills very often at all. The period of shit after taking them got longer and longer... first a few days... this turned into a few weeks... It literally got to the point where I couldn't see colour: the entire world was grey. I know that must sound bizarre or metaphorical but that's how it was. I couldn't get out of bed before 3pm or so, dropped out of uni and even simple tasks like going to the supermarket became impossible. I remember opening my front door one morning and crying and crying. I suffered from a complete inability to function as a human being.

Granted there were other issues swirling round my head but in my foolishness I started to take more pills while I was still feeling shit from the last lot. Lets just say this was a near fatal mistake. Thankfully for me two people I knew well committed suicide and one of my best friends got locked up (for dealing) in a short space of time and I managed to break the cycle and to slowly work through some underlying issues. I definitely empathise about the nihilistic "one downsmanship" mentioned somewhere prior on this thread.

I didn't touch MDMA or pills (there's a big difference in NZ) for at least 18 months. I had some on a NYE a few years back with a big group of really supportive people and even then it became a rather emotional experience for me. It's a bit better for me nowadays, I can take them without days of sepia following... but I still treat them with the utmost respect and wouldn't have more than 2 or 3 all year.

What's sad is that the dangers of MD etc are not talked about from a mental health perspective as opposed to "hurr, drugs are bad, you might overdose" type standpoint.

I've never shared that story on-line before, hopefully it stands testament to the dangers people face.

Thanks for sharing man. I know what you mean, comedowns can be the worst, and drugs can fool you into thinking they help. Glad to hear you've got out of that cycle and sorted yourself.

I definitely have thought about quitting weed recently, although I still enjoy it (listening to music, watching films etc. can be a different experience). But it certainly robs me of motivation and I try not to be stoned if I'm on my own anymore. My brain goes into overtime when I'm stoned, which can be helpful and can be awful.

@grizzleb - check your inbox

Anyone tried meditation as an antidote to bloody misery?

I'm sceptical purely cos I don't want to be a hippy, natch.

I found this to helps me relax as I often find my thoughts racing around without no control, it doesn't cheer me up but gives me a chance to escape the constant thoughts and tensions in the body and have a bit of time out from everything.

http://www.getsomeheadspace.com/Tools/Take10

There's a few tips on the site which are no-hippy too.

edit : if anyone does practice meditation perhaps they could start a thread somewhere. I would like to know a bit more.

Bang Diddley said:

I found this to helps me relax as I often find my thoughts racing around without no control, it doesn't cheer me up but gives me a chance to escape the constant thoughts and tensions in the body and have a bit of time out from everything.

http://www.getsomeheadspace.com/Tools/Take10

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That reads a bit like a simple version of the body-scan from the MSBR program
http://www.suite101.com/content/mindfulnessbased-stress-reduction-a112971

I have done the body-scan several times and the effect it has is quite positive, the feeling of being centered and focused but not concentrated (there is no effort) is great. So I plan to get more into MSBR, anybody here have any experience with that?

Corpsey said:

Anyone tried meditation as an antidote to bloody misery?

I'm sceptical purely cos I don't want to be a hippy, natch.

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But people have been meditating for thousands of years before hippies were invented, innit.

Mindfulness meditation has been gaining a reputation in med/psych circles for being at least as successful as antidepressants. Where I am, there are a few clinics that offer programs in a non-hippy/non-Buddhist-for-the-evening setting. Some are free and some are covered by medical insurance. A lot of it focuses on breathing and just observing the moment - both of which are good for calming the system and keeping the mind from racing around and going in circles.

This news piece about it was alright (though the chocolate part seemed gimmicky)

Corpsey said:

Anyone tried meditation as an antidote to bloody misery?

I'm sceptical purely cos I don't want to be a hippy, natch.

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bet this is good

I know its very prejudicial on my part (but some of my best friends are hippies!) but when I picture a meditation class in my head I see that dance class in ''Peep Show'', but with less dancing.

Also there's something about the idea of mental passivity which erks me - I suppose being happy means letting go of negativity/anger and so on but I think that negativity inspires some of the greatest art/sarcastic remarks on Facebook in the history of the world/Facebook so I'm almost loathe to get rid of it. It's probably just my inner negativity that makes me feel repulsed by the idea of a positive 'sunny' outlook on life, though.*

Anyway, I'm probably operating under the assumption that meditation is a cult-like brainwashing thing when in fact its more to do with focusing on the immediate moment. And I've noticed that doing something like playing the piano (which requires concentration 'in the moment') does have a therapeutic effect on me. I do think that I have a problem with living in my head at the moment... This, I venture, is probably the case with a lot of people on here (you all seem quite cerebral) which is part of the reason this thread has run on for so long.

*Also most of the time my misery makes me entirely unproductive, sitting around just resenting everyone/thing in the world as I eat endless bowls of sugar puffs. There's an article here about two books which put forward alternative views of the depression = creativity cliche (''Would Van Gogh have painted those paintings if he'd had Prozac?'')

baboon2004 said:

bet this is good

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This does look interesting, thanks baboon.

I'm actually considering doing a research degree/PHD on the subject of 'happiness' in certain European authors and how it relates to realism/'the truth' of the reality those authors depict. I covered the same subject in my dissertation on Flaubert/Kafka - both of them thought that happy people were ultimately deluded and only the miserable could really grasp the 'truth' of life. I think if I do it I'm going to look into Zen/Meditation etc. because I suppose its about clearing your mind of thought to a certain extent, whereas Kafka for example is about a claustrophobic/penal profusion of mental blocks and torments.

p.s. thanks to everyone for their responses

Corpsey said:

Also there's something about the idea of mental passivity which erks me - I suppose being happy means letting go of negativity/anger and so on but I think that negativity inspires some of the greatest art/sarcastic remarks on Facebook in the history of the world/Facebook so I'm almost loathe to get rid of it. It's probably just my inner negativity that makes me feel repulsed by the idea of a positive 'sunny' outlook on life, though.*

.... And I've noticed that doing something like playing the piano (which requires concentration 'in the moment') does have a therapeutic effect on me.....

*Also most of the time my misery makes me entirely unproductive, sitting around just resenting everyone/thing in the world as I eat endless bowls of sugar puffs. There's an article here about two books which put forward alternative views of the depression = creativity cliche (''Would Van Gogh have painted those paintings if he'd had Prozac?'')

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Being happy/content definitely doesn't mean letting go of anger, just focussing it more sharply (ie less back upon yourself, i guess; I've certainly been doign more political stuff when I haven't been depressed, for example); also doesn't have to mean being any less of a sarcastic bastard (I can vouch for this!). In a way I'm more insolent than I was when depressed...

Physical activities definitely good in combatting depression, and artistic stuff too (I've found piano playing ultre-therapeutic in the past too).

Obv not sure of the content of the books exactly, but I def take issue with the depression-creativity cliche (which obv you're not extolling necessarily, but just talking about). I think creativity can often come out of having lived bad shit (which so many people do at one point or another), but it doesn't mean that you have to keep on being miserable to make great art.

PS as to the book, def get hold of it if poss - Fromm is a genius.

baboon2004 said:

but I def take issue with the depression-creativity cliche (which obv you're not extolling necessarily, but just talking about). I think creativity can often come out of having lived bad shit (which so many people do at one point or another), but it doesn't mean that you have to keep on being miserable to make great art.

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Yeah this is an easy trap - an excuse not to try to fix things. Chances are, feeling better will free a person up to get more done.

Also right about the exercise. I've been told by a doctor that a regular routine is as effective as drugs for a lot of people, especially those with a lot of nervous energy.

Taking up jogging - which I always assumed I would hate - is one of the best things I've done. Actually, I often hate it while I'm doing it, but afterwards feels great and I start to notice the difference now if I don't keep it up.

It's sometimes difficult for me to pull myself up out of a miserable state and partly that's because I somehow perversely enjoy wallowing in it. It's also self-perpetuating because that mindset shoots down positive thoughts automatically. The thing is I know that the best thing to do really is just ignore/block out that negative inner-voice, take action and my whole life would change for the better, but the way I see it (while in a depressed mindset) is that I should be depressed, cos I'm/life's shit. So I feel compelled to pay attention to these negative thoughts, when I shouldn't be wasting my time on them.

Article on the benefits of mindful/transcendental meditation in the Independent the other day. Definitely going to try and give it a go. I go to the gym at the moment which is okay but I think I might try jogging or something just to get outside a bit more (also, I wouldn't have to listen to Benny Benassi and shite like that, as I do at the gym).

Corpsey said:

It's sometimes difficult for me to pull myself up out of a miserable state and partly that's because I somehow perversely enjoy wallowing in it. It's also self-perpetuating because that mindset shoots down positive thoughts automatically. The thing is I know that the best thing to do really is just ignore/block out that negative inner-voice, take action and my whole life would change for the better, but the way I see it (while in a depressed mindset) is that I should be depressed, cos I'm/life's shit. So I feel compelled to pay attention to these negative thoughts, when I shouldn't be wasting my time on them.

Article on the benefits of mindful/transcendental meditation in the Independent the other day. Definitely going to try and give it a go. I go to the gym at the moment which is okay but I think I might try jogging or something just to get outside a bit more (also, I wouldn't have to listen to Benny Benassi and shite like that, as I do at the gym).

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I find walking really good. I initially used to listen to music then stopped that and just looked at things and listened to my surroundings while walking. Its useful to find a breathing/stepping pattern and simply focus on that.

The good thing about the MSBR (mindfull medi) type stuff is that it emphasis is not to control the thoughts -ive or +ive but to just let them be, not try to analyse them and just let them drift in and out of your mind without any judgement, but remain focused on breathing and body sensations and slowly the thoughts become less important as the focus is elsewhere.

Mentioned this in the 'questions you're scared to ask' thread: Drawing From The Right Side Of Your Brain by Betty Edwards. I haven't read it but I read a little bit of it today on my way home from C.B.T. class number one (wasn't incredibly useful, but I'm going to give it a chance) - very interesting stuff about the accessing of the visual/sensory partys of the mind as opposed to the analytic/linguistic parts... I don't know how true this is, but this thing of concentrating the mind seems to be a recurring feature of a number of therapeutic 'solutions' to depression i.e. meditation and the aforementioned therapeutic effect playing the piano has on me. Bringing the mind into contact with immediate reality, rather than dwelling on bad memories (regrets, frustrations) or on a fantasised 'if only' world.

In the last year I've felt more removed from reality than ever before at times, as if I can't see it anymore through the thick haze of my thoughts (not suggesting these thoughts are in any way profound or even true btw)... I don't think going on the internet all the time helps with this.

The thing is, I recognise the usefulness of dreaming and desiring things you don't have but it can become a kind of trap, and can make you feel so dissatisfied with the way things are that you don't feel like you have the energy to change the way things are so you can get closer to what you want.

I started taking a bunch of dietary supplements, I think they might have fixed my brain. Valerian root, st. john's wort, n acetyl cysteine, tyrosine, vitamin d and fish oil. I don't really know what the motivation was but I feel better than I have in ages. Think the nice weather might have something to do with that too.

grizzleb said:

vitamin d and fish oil.

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The Doc is constantly goin on about the amount of people in the Uk with D deficiency. Not that I'm saying that it's a cure-all for horrible brain patterns but sometimes the chemical stuff is really simple to sort out, and can help.