Worst Mistake in History of Human Race

zhao

there are no accidents
one of my favorite questions is: how is a BwO any better/worse than any other virtual body, say, a cyborg from like T2, in effecting any sort of active resistance to capitalism.

isn't the BwO synoymous, at least to a degree, with the Virtual body? it is a collection of unrealized possibilities of the body, or alternative modes of existence yet un-tried.

from wiki:
Even though any form of desire can be produced on it, the empty BwO is non-productive. The full BwO is the healthy BwO; it is productive, but not petrified in its organ-ization. The cancerous BwO is caught in a pattern of endless reproduction of the self-same pattern.

seems to me that Terminator, heroin and S+M would all belong in category of the cancerous BwO.

my own take on the BwO, not necessarily anything to do with Anti-Oedipus, is a consciousness / body unconditioned, uninhibited, un-afraid, uncompartmentalized, undivided, the opposite of "head in a jar", unified and whole, pre-Descartes, pre-lingual, pre-symbolic, inhabiting an imagistic realm of the imagination of immediate yet complete immersion in the senses.

which is a lot to do with primitivism.

something like seeing the world and everything within it as it is, for what it is, like an animal would (but obviously with human intellect)
 

goomba

DADADADADADAAAAAA!!!
Vegetarions and Vegans in my eyes are the worst mistake! Why would someone not want to eat what is only natural to us humans! Perhaps not the WORST mistake or even a mistake so we'll say a fault in the human being!

Worst mistake would probably have to be something along the lines of......I don't want to get into trouble for this........but................truthfully.................................I'd have to say religion!

It's because of different religions that there is war among people! Hope you all don't mind me saying it but in a way it's true! I understand the need for believing in something but the way it's worked out has led to death, dating back thousands of years!

If anyone wants to know if I'm religious then I'd like to say I'm a Jedi! LOL

Sorry to anyone if I have offended them!
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
Vegetarions and Vegans in my eyes are the worst mistake! Why would someone not want to eat what is only natural to us humans! Perhaps not the WORST mistake or even a mistake so we'll say a fault in the human being!

goomba, please read a little more on the topics you post about or shut the fuck up. otherwise, i doubt you'll be welcome here for long
 

zhao

there are no accidents
haha goomba's views on religion is identical to those of Richard Dawkins. and that speaks volumes about Dawkins. :D

AND might i add that his dietary opinions are very telling about what sorts of persons are fervently anti-vegetarian LOL :D
 
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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
'Vegetarions' sound like a warlike alien race, possibly hailing from the planet Tofu and possibly thwarted in their plans to invade Earth by Doctor Who. :)
 

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
'Vegetarions' sound like a warlike alien race, possibly hailing from the planet Tofu and possibly thwarted in their plans to invade Earth by Doctor Who. :)
Incorrect - vegetarions are gaseous partciles emitted by decaying plant matter.

On the other hand should the Vegans come knocking at your solar system...
 

zhao

there are no accidents
haha goomba's views on religion is identical to those of Richard Dawkins. and that speaks volumes about Dawkins. :D

AND might i add that his dietary opinions are very telling about what sorts of persons are fervently anti-vegetarian LOL :D

'Vegetarions' sound like a warlike alien race, possibly hailing from the planet Tofu and possibly thwarted in their plans to invade Earth by Doctor Who. :)

if vegetarians are aliens then this must be human:

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From everything I've read, egg and hog operations are the worst. Beef cattle in America at least still live outdoors, albeit standing ankle deep in their own waste eating a diet that makes them sick. And broiler chickens, although they do get their beaks snipped off with a hot knife to keep them from cannibalizing one another under the stress of their confinement, at least don't spend their eight-week lives in cages too small to ever stretch a wing. That fate is reserved for the American laying hen, who passes her brief span piled together with a half-dozen other hens in a wire cage whose floor a single page of this magazine could carpet. Every natural instinct of this animal is thwarted, leading to a range of behavioral ''vices'' that can include cannibalizing her cagemates and rubbing her body against the wire mesh until it is featherless and bleeding. Pain? Suffering? Madness? The operative suspension of disbelief depends on more neutral descriptors, like ''vices'' and ''stress.'' Whatever you want to call what's going on in those cages, the 10 percent or so of hens that can't bear it and simply die is built into the cost of production. And when the output of the others begins to ebb, the hens will be ''force-molted'' -- starved of food and water and light for several days in order to stimulate a final bout of egg laying before their life's work is done.

Simply reciting these facts, most of which are drawn from poultry-trade magazines, makes me sound like one of those animal people, doesn't it? I don't mean to, but this is what can happen when . . . you look. It certainly wasn't my intention to ruin anyone's breakfast. But now that I probably have spoiled the eggs, I do want to say one thing about the bacon, mention a single practice (by no means the worst) in modern hog production that points to the compound madness of an impeccable industrial logic.

Piglets in confinement operations are weaned from their mothers 10 days after birth (compared with 13 weeks in nature) because they gain weight faster on their hormone- and antibiotic-fortified feed. This premature weaning leaves the pigs with a lifelong craving to suck and chew, a desire they gratify in confinement by biting the tail of the animal in front of them. A normal pig would fight off his molester, but a demoralized pig has stopped caring. ''Learned helplessness'' is the psychological term, and it's not uncommon in confinement operations, where tens of thousands of hogs spend their entire lives ignorant of sunshine or earth or straw, crowded together beneath a metal roof upon metal slats suspended over a manure pit. So it's not surprising that an animal as sensitive and intelligent as a pig would get depressed, and a depressed pig will allow his tail to be chewed on to the point of infection. Sick pigs, being underperforming ''production units,'' are clubbed to death on the spot. The U.S.D.A.'s recommended solution to the problem is called ''tail docking.'' Using a pair of pliers (and no anesthetic), most but not all of the tail is snipped off. Why the little stump? Because the whole point of the exercise is not to remove the object of tail-biting so much as to render it more sensitive. Now, a bite on the tail is so painful that even the most demoralized pig will mount a struggle to avoid it.
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
Zhao: In the UK recently there have been a number of television programmes relating to the alienation of humans from the processes of production of their food (predominantly of course: meat). Watching these programmes I was struck by the realization that at its most fundamental level (to eat meat we ought to kill it ourselves) this mini-movement (meat-realism or whatever) is almost classically Marxist in its analysis of the estrangement of labour (within the food market). The squeamishness and prissiness of most of the individuals they took through the processes was actually quite shocking to me. Most of them preferred not even to think of meat as animal muscle/entrails/organs etc... The estrangement is emphasised here by the literal alienation of man from the industrial holocaustic death-factories at the centre of meat production...
 

goomba

DADADADADADAAAAAA!!!
haha goomba's views on religion is identical to those of Richard Dawkins. and that speaks volumes about Dawkins. :D

AND might i add that his dietary opinions are very telling about what sorts of persons are fervently anti-vegetarian LOL :D

Haha don't know who he is but I'll check wikipedia or something later!

As for Matt B. What have I said that is so wrong LOL! I have a joke about vegans and veggies and you get all protective! It's not as if I'm saying that it's wrong and it should be banned or something! Just saying that I love eating meat like steak and stuff and in my opinion I could not live without meat and don't understand why some people choose to not eat it as it's something humans have done since we were apes! Everyone has an opinion and everyone have a reaction, whether it be positive or negative reaction at the end of the day this is a topic about peoples opinion now if you don't mind just bring your stress levels down a little, breathe slowly and we'll get through this nice and fine!

I don't eat cow! I eat beef! I don't eat pig! I eat bacon! :D
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Watching these programmes I was struck by the realization that at its most fundamental level (to eat meat we ought to kill it ourselves) this mini-movement (meat-realism or whatever) is almost classically Marxist in its analysis of the estrangement of labour (within the food market)

I'm really not sure I buy this idea. I mean, there are plenty of good reasons why different people do different jobs, right? It would be insane if everyone had to do literally everything for themselves (well, it would be impossible, wouldn't it). To put it another way, it's only through the efforts of men who are prepared to wade around in a big tunnel full of shit (for which they are of course paid) that sewage systems are maintained; I'm pretty glad I don't do this for a living, but all the same I don't think that implies I shouldn't have the right to have a flushing toilet in my house.

Of course, whether any particular person feels guiltily squeamish, perversely glad or completely apathetic about the suffering of animals in our farms makes not a jot of difference to the animals themselves, and it's clearly to the good that we have at least some laws to garuantee certain minimum welfare standards, and that more and more people are buying free-range meat and eggs.
 

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
'Vegetarions' sound like a warlike alien race, possibly hailing from the planet Tofu and possibly thwarted in their plans to invade Earth by Doctor Who. :)
But maybe there's more to that than is immediately apparent.

To take the cheap sci-fi analogy a bit further perhaps the human race is comething like the ancient vulcans in Star Trek - a violent warlike race that decides the only way it can survive is to evolve consciously and curtail it's more dangerous impulses. In that sense the Vegitarions *(c)2007 Goomba, represent the cultural awareness that wishes to move away from the blithe assumption that because we can then we must do whatever we want to subjugate all other creatures, especially by eating them.
 

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
...because we can then we must do whatever we want to subjugate all other creatures, especially by eating them.
In fact you could just as well say that because we can stop eating animals, at least to the extent that we do, then we must do so. If as Goomba says the apes that we were ate other animals it was strictly out of necessity. Could that be why there is often such weirdly vociferous criticism of Vegeterionism (sic) - because it must not be acknowledged that it is indeed perfectly possible to enjoy food and be healthy without eating meat?
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
seems to me that Terminator, heroin and S+M would all belong in category of the cancerous BwO.

nope, let me find the reference...i have nothing better to do...i think it's on like page 340 something of that latest edition of mille plateau
 

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
I'm really not sure I buy this idea. I mean, there are plenty of good reasons why different people do different jobs, right? It would be insane if everyone had to do literally everything for themselves (well, it would be impossible, wouldn't it). To put it another way, it's only through the efforts of men who are prepared to wade around in a big tunnel full of shit (for which they are of course paid) that sewage systems are maintained; I'm pretty glad I don't do this for a living, but all the same I don't think that implies I shouldn't have the right to have a flushing toilet in my house.
The problem is that what more or less immediately happens is that the farming of animals becomes an industry and as that industry gets bigger it must sustain itself. So then it's no longer done out of the necessity of providing the food that is needed or desired, but to create and maintain the market so that the industry itself can survive and prosper. This is of course a mechanism that has wider siginificance than (even) just the food market. It's all a bit arse about face really, as I'm sure Marx was fond of saying.
 
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N

nomadologist

Guest
my own take on the BwO, not necessarily anything to do with Anti-Oedipus, is a consciousness / body unconditioned, uninhibited, un-afraid, uncompartmentalized, undivided, the opposite of "head in a jar", unified and whole, pre-Descartes, pre-lingual, pre-symbolic, inhabiting an imagistic realm of the imagination of immediate yet complete immersion in the senses.

which is a lot to do with primitivism.

yeah...remember when Erakah Badu had that video where it was all tribal anarcho-futuristic? it was right after she decided a PhD was just a "piece of paper" and gave it all up...
 

vimothy

yurp
seems to me that Terminator, heroin and S+M would all belong in category of the cancerous BwO.

As I remember it, the explicit example of a BwO in A Thousand Plateaus is a charming little S&M vignette. I think. Someone else can corroborate, I'm sure.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
if vegetarians are aliens then this must be human:

all of this is entirely human. look at what we do to one another

ever been to one of those medieval torture museums? i went to that one in Rothenberg where that cannibal guy who cut of that other guy's penis lived. on the Tauber? i think...
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
an online reference, taken from http://www.echo.ucla.edu/volume1-issue1/middleton/middleton-article.html

A valuable text for thinking through these issues is Deleuze and Guattari's "How do you Make Yourself a Body Without Organs?" in which they discuss the sort of remappings of the affective geography of the body potentially enabled by masochists and drug users.19 These forms of experimentation, in their reading, allow for a disconnection of affects from meanings in which they have been entrenched by discourses of psychoanalysis, medicine, and so on. The crucial point perhaps is that the "lines of flight" away from oppressive social structures which such practices represent are never inherently productive or destructive, but can have very different effects depending upon the care and caution with which they are undertaken. The body of the heroin user is a body in process, and can be a mode of passage, but only when connected up with other forms of productivity and creativity. If this is the case, as Deleuze and Guattari write: "The Body Without Organs reveals itself for what it is: connection of desires, conjunction of flows, continuum of intensities. You have constructed your own little machine, ready to be plugged into other collective machines."
 
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