was i wrong about Vimothy?

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Z

zhao

there are no accidents
maybe not as much wrong "about" as much as maybe wrong in my handling of the situation.

i'm referring of course, to events that took place on this and following pages.

which may have lead to Vimothy's departure from this forum.

so he is a bush lover. so he is, maybe unknowingly, a racist and a pro-milliatary neo-con. so he sides with state terrorism and apologizes for mass murder. but maybe he also sparked heated debates which are worthwhile to all.

what do you think?

while i don't intend to ever budge from my stance and convictions, and will never stop regarding people who hold views as his as my mortal enemies, was i being intolerant and a bit fascist in my personal attacks against him?

i wish to be just and fair, but at the same time i have zero tolerance for what i view as morally deplorable behavior and those that defend them. where to draw the line?

honestly, if most feel that i was being too harsh, i am capable of issuing a public apology for my personal attacks...
 
swears

swears

preppy-kei
I am more baffled by his views on the was against terror than anything, how can anybody still think this is a good idea, or that it's "working"?

I know a few pro-free market libertarians, who are so socially liberal you couldn't even really call them "right wing". But I think having an iron belief in something like the market (or the state, for that matter) and assuming that it's gonna sort everything out is weird too.
 
Gavin

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
Did he quit? He was always mentioning how busy he was in his posts, I figured it was finals time for him or something.

His views aren't really inconsistent at all; in fact, he's probably more consistent and better informed than the average right-winger. He sincerely believes in the SS Islamofascist Werewolf Terror Threat and believes in the need to fight it by dropping cluster bombs on villages around the world.
 
Gavin

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
I wouldn't take it too hard Zhao... If you want to be a ruling class ideologue you need a thick skin. Or maybe not, since the mediatized conventional wisdom is on their side. Anyway, I think a good rule of thumb, regardless of the tone of a post, is to ask whether a post adds to the substantive content of the messageboard -- whether through intellectual content, style, furthering discussion, etc. Though I'm sure plenty of my posts are found wanting in this...

I sort of appreciated Vimothy, it's much more interesting&useful arguing with well-informed adversaries than the typical idiots that support the War on Terror, and I have learned things from articles he's linked. A bit heavy on conservative thinktanks though...
 
swears

swears

preppy-kei
Gavin said:
I sort of appreciated Vimothy, it's much more interesting&useful arguing with well-informed adversaries than the typical idiots that support the War on Terror, and I have learned things from articles he's linked.
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OTM
 
Guybrush

Guybrush

Dittohead
zhao said:
and to think that just a week ago i was casually chatting about jazz with him in the music forum...

EWWWWWWW!!!

it's like finding out that the smelly guy who sits next to you at work is actually a child rapist.
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That was an unseemly thing to write, and something that ought to have got you temp-banned. At the very least, I think an apology is in order.

Vimothy is one of few contrarians on this forum, and for that I salute him.
 
M

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
I'm sure Vim can take it. The 'child rapist' line really made me laugh, but transgression does in general and I think you did kinda step over the line. But I can't really talk.

Mind you (lol) I was in a bar in Paris once and this guy called my mother a donkeyfucker (in French, it took me about a minute for it to sink in) and one of the other guys turned round to the Doc and was like 'just ignore him, he comes in here all the time with his bullshit just to wind us up, it keeps us on our toes, but you should tell your friend, the guy is great at fights'. I hee-hawed in his face very loudly, and sat there shouting in his face 'yes! I'm a MULE! I"M A MULE!'. Sometimes it's fun to get insulted.
 
R

ripley

Well-known member
Guybrush said:
Vimothy is one of few contrarians on this forum, and for that I salute him.
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there are contrarians here from a feminist (or simply women-are-humans) perspective, but somehow that often doesn't seems to be treated as a valuable contribution that makes people think harder, and instead is often treated as an overly personal or overly politicized approach to whatever it is that people are talking about...

Vimothy was pretty predictable, and easily bracketed into particular self-consciously political arenas of discussion. no idea whether anyone was wrong about him, but I hear his kind of stuff all the time and can read it plenty of places so I don't miss it here.

As far as his feelings or his dignity goes, I'm sure he's managing fine.
 
T

tate

Brown Sugar
ripley said:
there are contrarians here from a feminist (or simply women-are-humans) perspective, but somehow that often doesn't seem to be treated as a valuable contribution that makes people think harder, and instead is often treated as an overly personal or overly politicized approach to whatever it is that people are talking about...
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Amen to that, Ripley, I couldn't agree with you more.
 
boombox

boombox

...
A conference call apology
what do you think?
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How edifying.

What Vimothy offered were opinions. He put them reasonably and intelligently and did not deserve such a ludicrous witch hunt. If he is guilty of anything it is of a thought crime. What Zhao said was abhorrent and, unfortunately, entirely in keeping with the way these threads tend to evolve.

You should stop crawling to your online mummies with crocodile tears, cease your self-righteous navel-gazing and just apologize.





"...either he has some serious personal issues, or not all his dogs are barking"

Die Hard with a Vengeance
 
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Z

zhao

there are no accidents
Originally Posted by zhao
and to think that just a week ago i was casually chatting about jazz with him in the music forum...

EWWWWWWW!!!

it's like finding out that the smelly guy who sits next to you at work is actually a child rapist.
Click to expand...

abhorrent? maybe, but very intentionally so. i was trying to find words with which to express how i felt after looking at his blog -- which is every bit as abhorrent to me as the metaphor i chose.

that was exactly how i felt at the time, and how i continue to feel: abhorred.

with that said, i suppose i could have used more caution and restraint, even when addressing an aborhent situation:

i hereby sincerely apologize to Vimothy for my personal attack(s) and use of harsh language.

and as much as i find your views to be detestable, as much as i find your opinions vile, as much as i find your general outlook on life and the universe to be abhorrent, i do value your presence on this board, for reasons stated above by myself and others.

so, whether you actually left or not, here it is.

no hard feelings i hope? just natural born enemies, ain't no thang.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
"What Vimothy offered were opinions. He put them reasonably and intelligently and did not deserve such a ludicrous witch hunt. If he is guilty of anything it is of a thought crime. What Zhao said was abhorrent and, unfortunately, entirely in keeping with the way these threads tend to evolve."
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Yeah, spot on. I don't (as a rule) agree with what Vimothy was saying but in the arguments with Zhao, Nomad and HMLT he was putting his points clearly and fairly and more intelligently than them and received a torrent of abuse in exchange. I think if your ideas are robust enough you should be able to defend them without descending to that level. If you can't win an argument then go and read some more about it and come back when you're up to the debate, don't just put your fingers in your ears and call your opponent a paedophile. This should also have the positive result that you know more about and have reinforced your position (unless - shock, you discover you were wrong). Surely the whole point of this board is discussion and you need to have dissenting (by definition) voices for that.

"so he is, maybe unknowingly, a racist"
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I don't accept that by the way.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
oh and nice personal attacks on your own part boombox. and very considerate of you to be so certain in your interpretation of my apology offer as fake and deceptive, when i could have just not looked back at all.

and your recent statements which demonizes islam leads me to think that the underlying reason for your seemingly moral and unbiased indignation is simply the fact that you come from the same camp as Vimothy; and you are doing nothing more than merely protecting one of your own.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
was not trying to win any arguments with that remark idlerich. just expressing how i felt.

and i certainly don't think HTML and nomad and Gavin and myself were on the "losing end" of the debate? from what do you draw this conclusion?
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
"and i certainly don't think HTML and nomad and Gavin and myself were on the "losing end" of the debate? from what do you draw this conclusion?"
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I wasn't around at the time but I read it later and, while I'm not so much saying that the argument was won or lost, I think to any disinterested observer it is pretty clear that Vimothy is a lot smarter than you. Nomadologist in particular cannot begin to string together a coherent argument and makes up for it with insults, to a lesser extent you do the same.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
that's not what it was Eric.

thanks for sharing your opinion on the relative "smartness" of dissensians, idlerich.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
"thanks for sharing your opinion on the relative "smartness" of dissensians, idlerich."
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Well, I don't want to argue or insult anyone (which is why I stay out of those bruising insult threads) but you did specifically ask for opinions so I gave mine, you asked for clarification so I clarified.
 
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