conflict prevention / artistic partnerships

Z

zhao

there are no accidents
seems i keep learning the same lesson over and over:

to not ignore any signs of the way someone feels -- to be more sensitive to what might be going on in other people's heads.

a lot of times you get a sign or a hunch that something might be going on, and addressing it is better than ignoring it -- if it's not the case, and you are imagining it, no big deal. if it is the case, then the other party will appreciate you addressing the issue, and it will prevent a situation down the road.

similar preventions could have stopped minor to major relationship disasters in the past. whether with friends or significant others.

and i guess any kind of artistic partnership is a type of relationship with a unique set of circumstances and maybe even more difficult to manage. there is passion involved. there is the sharing of a vision and lots of other things involved. there are personal sacrifices involved. there is money and popularity and press and image involved. and for musicians there are loads of unpredictable, extreme, difficult and stressful situations involved.

have heard often stories of band members at each other's throats on tour or whatever. it can be very sad if such an event threatens to or actually destroys a fruitful partnership.... just had some beers with a member of the basic channel crew who mentioned that he hopes that Rhythm and Sound will be able to resolve what ever issues have accumulated between them over the years...

stories and/or advice welcome
 
Last edited:
G

gek-opel

entered apprentice
Some acts like AMM prided themselves on using the actual musical performance as the medium of resolving or playing out or negotiating intra-band conflicts, although given that they have now broken up I guess you could argue that this approach was not ultimately a successful one.

I couldn't possibly comment as my last musical collaboration ended in ridiculous amounts of recrimination (and featured regular violence involving the utilisation of acoustic guitars as projectile weapons...) Though as in any situation like this its all about power, and the balancing of power dynamics. In any relationship there is going to be some form of underlying asymmetry and success will rely on the resolution of this into a stable form.
 
B

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
gek-opel said:
In any relationship there is going to be some form of underlying asymmetry and success will rely on the resolution of this into a stable form.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I have no collaborative artistic experiences to draw on here, but I have recently been preoccupied hugely to the extent to which all my relationships feature assymetry. More exactly, that one person is always more reliant upon the relationship than the other, leading to (a) that party making regular (or in some cases continuous) allowances for the other, be that in terms of decision-making/irritating habits/taking advantage consciously or unconsciously etc ; and (b) that party eventually becoming fed up of this, leading to an argument/rift of some kind.

The scary thing is that I've typically been said party, but (as my confidence grows in later years, I guess) more recently I have been on the other side of the relationship, and I act in the same way as others have done to me i.e. taking advantage, almost unconsciously.

When you extend this logic to romantic relationships is when it becomes really troubling.

And possibly to artisitc relationships too.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
it's so important who to work with in any kind of business / artistic collaboration... it's also important to not ignore signs of something being not quite right in the beginning -- i think there are usually signs for someone being screwed up.

a friend of mine invested 6 months of his life in a project which is now falling apart because one of the partners is a complete fuck-up. i don't envy his situation.

I'm really lucky to have such a good partner in NGOMA... he came around the house the next day and apologized and really cleared up the misunderstanding. it wasn't even about what i thought it was about!
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
zhao said:
it's so important who to work with in any kind of business / artistic collaboration... it's also important to not ignore signs of something being not quite right in the beginning -- i think there are usually signs for someone being screwed up.

a friend of mine invested 6 months of his life in a project which is now falling apart because one of the partners is a complete fuck-up. i don't envy his situation.

I'm really lucky to have such a good partner in NGOMA... he came around the house the next day and apologized and really cleared up the misunderstanding. it wasn't even about what i thought it was about!
Click to expand...

One thing I've had to learn the hard way through both work and creative collab is that, oftentimes, the most enthusiastic, big-minded "idea people" tend to lack when it comes to having either/or both/and the skills/dedication it takes to actually execute their ideas, so that even if you've hit on something truly visionary, they will lose interest and the whole thing will unravel as soon as they realize they may have to involve themselves in terms of putting forth effort.

Took me a long time to realize that "a good idea that you can't feasibly accomplish is not a good idea." This applies mostly to business but still. Beware of people with too much enthusiasm--their high energy tends to be predicated on cluelessness and staying clueless.
 
N

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
The worst thing I've found with creative collaborations is when people crap out at the first sign of something actually happening - real creative progress, success, attention, recognition. It can indeed be like entering a relationship and it's very painful when good work is cruelly and abruptly abandoned due to this kind of insecurity and cowardice which often manifests as a kind of know-it-all aloofness.
 
G

gek-opel

entered apprentice
My conclusion is eventally my own inherent cuntishness will always show itself, a drive towards control and dictatorship. In terms of bands they operated best when this was utilized productively I suppose.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
noel emits said:
The worst thing I've found with creative collaborations is when people crap out at the first sign of something actually happening - real creative progress, success, attention, recognition. It can indeed be like entering a relationship and it's very painful when good work is cruelly and abruptly abandoned due to this kind of insecurity and cowardice which often manifests as a kind of know-it-all aloofness.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about people who are sometimes said to be "afraid of success"? I've known people like that.

Just like control and power asymmetry are essential to these sorts of relationships, so is "trust" on a pretty fundamental level, so sadly enough complete cynicism is out of the question. Getting burned sometimes is better than not trying at all, I suppose.

At least I've never been involved in anything successful enough for litigation to become part of the problem...:eek:
 
N

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
nomadologist said:
Are you talking about people who are sometimes said to be "afraid of success"? I've known people like that.
Click to expand...
It can certainly seem like that, yes. But underlying it I think is an insecurity that refuses to stand behind something and get off the fence. A fear of being defined maybe, needing to stay 'in potential' so all criticism is pre-empted. I'm not sure what it is but they can fuck off. ;)
nomadologist said:
Just like control and power asymmetry are essential to these sorts of relationships, so is "trust" on a pretty fundamental level, so sadly enough complete cynicism is out of the question. Getting burned sometimes is better than not trying at all, I suppose.
Click to expand...
Of course, in the end you just have to do it, there's no substitute.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
noel emits said:
It can certainly seem like that, yes. But underlying it I think is an insecurity that refuses to stand behind something and get off the fence. A fear of being defined maybe, needing to stay 'in potential' so all criticism is pre-empted. I'm not sure what it is but they can fuck off. ;)
Click to expand...

Maybe even perfectionism? I used to be like that--if it can't be 100% perfect and exactly the way I envisioned it, I don't want to bother.
 
N

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
nomadologist said:
Maybe even perfectionism? I used to be like that--if it can't be 100% perfect and exactly the way I envisioned it, I don't want to bother.
Click to expand...
Perfectionism and cynicism are often strategies for avoiding the doing of any actual work. I know, so is posting on message boards. :)
 
swears

swears

preppy-kei
I find working with my mate much better way to make tunes, trims off a lot of the fat. Rather than all our "influences" getting mashed together into some "eclectic" mess, we're leaving out the things we don't like about each other's tastes, making things more focused and stripped down. Plus we both love Todd Edwards, so that helps.
 
swears

swears

preppy-kei
musicvenndiag.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top