Worst Mistake Never Made

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
The point is not that we win, harharhar1111!!!
It's got nothing to do with scoring points.
Indeed.

I wasn't even arguing with you. What I was saying was that in relation to thinking about this at all it's not really relevant in my view that some tribes find it necessary to practice infanticide. I understand you were making a point about optimal populations but it was Mr Tea that asked if people considered infanticide to be necessary in maintaining those societies. I think we agree on all this. I'm just replying because I'm a bit baffled that you say I was trying to score points or say that 'we' are better. I don't like my statement being characterised in that way. I was trying to focus on what I see as the important part. Oh well.

Pah, sod it. I may have misread what you said. I didn't think you were trying to score points. I was just making my own point. Perhaps I should have said 'irrelevant' not 'specious'. Apologies, it's not an argument. My internet connection is too arse at the moment to bother with this.
 
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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
but it was Mr Tea that asked if people considered infanticide to be necessary in maintaining those societies. I think we agree on all this.

Umm, I think it was Vim who mentioned infanticide as such, I just said "high infant mortality". There are plenty of things that cause that anyway.

Anyway, I've certainly heard of cultures where, for instance, children are sometimes left to die from hunger or exposure (as opposed to actively killing them - perhaps leaving the child 'in the lap of the gods', as it were) when resources are very scarce, during a famine or a bad winter for example.
 

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
Ok well rather than get into any distracting arguments I would just like to say that I find this information of interest because I am interested in finding out how humans can progress and how sustainable societies might be organised. That is my agenda.
 

vimothy

yurp
Look: in an economy where the living standard is dictated by the population density, the equilibrium rate of births against deaths is the standard of living, i.e. the subsistence income. That doesn't apply to our society today, because a growing population doesn't necessarily mean a shrinking mean income (empirical fact). In a Malthusian or natural economy, where resources are fixed, more people necessarily leads to less resources per surviving person, i.e. to a lower standard of living.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
I've certainly heard of cultures where, for instance, children are sometimes left to die from hunger or exposure (as opposed to actively killing them - perhaps leaving the child 'in the lap of the gods', as it were) when resources are very scarce, during a famine or a bad winter for example.

i hate losing posts and typing shit twice!!! :mad:

anyway. the above does not apply to the Dobe. if any one listened to the mp3... studying them has lead one sociologist to claim "scarcity is a myth", because the Dobe live in abundance 365 days a year. yet another has coined the term "Original Affluence" to describe Gatherer/Hunter lifestyle -- that is, if one measures affluence not by material possessions but free time.

and it almost goes without mention that the Dobe enjoy superb health.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
In a Malthusian or natural economy, where resources are fixed, more people necessarily leads to less resources per surviving person, i.e. to a lower standard of living.

This, presumably, only holds true as long as resources are being maximally exploited in the first place. Though of course, if you have a rising population density, this point will be reached eventually, I suppose.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
anyway. the above does not apply to the Dobe. if any one listened to the mp3... studying them has lead one sociologist to claim "scarcity is a myth", because the Dobe live in abundance 365 days a year. yet another has coined the term "Original Affluence" to describe Gatherer/Hunter lifestyle -- that is, if one measures affluence not by material possessions but free time.

and it almost goes without mention that the Dobe enjoy superb health.

OK, fair enough - extended celibacy is obviously an effective, though pretty drastic, solution to population increase. I imagine you'd be pretty popular if you turned up there with a consignment of johnnies, though. :)
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
this is a continuation of that conversation, which sits just a few threads down. guess i could have put it in there but whatever.

Was just confused...we all know I agree that agrarian living is unsustainable and not optimal at this point.

Recommend some books about this? I've never come across any.
 

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
Look: in an economy where the living standard is dictated by the population density, the equilibrium rate of births against deaths is the standard of living
It's still a matter of debate here whether living standards are dictated by population densities. It's blatantly not the whole story.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
why must the english be so... damned english all the fuckin time?! ;) anyhow i've no idea what that means.

Never mind, moosh, lend us yer shell-like an' we'll 'ave you talking pukka in two shakes! :cool:

('johnnies' = 'condoms', by the way.)
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
The meaning of the word spunk is to be covered in your next lesson on UK English, zhao. :)
 
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