Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
That's not what she said.
Well, that's what I remember having read - what did she say, then?
That's not what she said.
Well, that's what I remember having read - what did she say, then?
Oh for fuck's sake...do you have anything constructive to add, or are you just going to take snide (and irrelevant) potshots?
Irrelevant, because I'm talking about Iran's human rights record and Amis wants to deport British Muslims (or whatever nonsense he's spouting today)...surely you can see the difference here? I mean, you *can* see it, right?
I'm saying that the Islamic world in general - and I'm not trying to paint it as a single, homogeneous entity, before anyone says, I just mean Islamic countries, collectively - are generally not democratic and many have pretty terrible records on human rights.
First off, I don't believe that for a second. According to Wikipedia, the US is 6th in terms simply of *numbers* of executions (and bear in mind it has the world's 3rd-biggest population - much bigger than Iran, which is second):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty#Global_distribution_of_death_penalty
Bear in mind also that Iran, among other countries, has the death penalty for 'crimes' such as sodomy and apostasy...the US does at least tend to execute actual murderers.
The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate[1] and total documented prison population in the world[2]. As of 2006, a record 7 million people were behind bars, on probation or on parole.
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:...ted&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=ie&client=firefox-a
I knew something like this would be the response when I made my post, so can please just get away from this childish mode of thinking that goes "You criticise X but Y does bad stuff too, so shut up!". It would also be nice not to have to wade through these attempts at drawing moral equivalence that supposedly make one country that executes murderers "just as bad" as another country that executes people for sexual, religious or political crimes.
Link wasn't anything to do with your posts, any link-zinging was unintended. I've got a shitload on at work at the moment, so I was going to expand on this article later on...
And anyway - look at Indonesia - the worlds largest Islamic country and a democracy (at least since a US installed ruler for life was ousted).
*some* Muslims, I should add, but they tend to be the most vocal
A lot of those who are most vocal are promoted way beyond their importance because they make good TV. When you've got a choice between some sane Sufi talking reasonably and al-Jihadi the Headchopper threatening to decapitate the Home Secretary you know which one is the ratings winner.
Of course, and I appreciate this. But who, out of these two, makes the more persuasive and charismatic figure in the local mosque?
Thanks for that Tea. Id like to keep things relatively friendly around here if at all possible.
When I say its a 'symptom' rather than a cause - I think there are many examples in history when extremists have gained power and support from populations - and its usually due to other avenues of development or opportunities being unavailable for one reason or another. In the case of the Middle East and North Africa, it really is difficult to come to any conclusion without taking the long history of colonialism and foreign interventions in that area into account.
Indeed, indeed. It would be nice if some form of mutual tolerance could be found. Religion by its very nature is exclusive and, whatever they may like to think, intolerant. However, by no means are atheists or agnostics innocent, as they too are often intolerant of those who choose to have faith. (Apologies for going ever-so-slightly off-topic)Yup, but religion isn't going anywhere soon, so I guess tolerance and diplomacy is the order of the day...