Islamophobia

Z

zhao

there are no accidents
this thing is rampant and deserves its own thread.

i don't pretend to have in depth knowledge, but the general, pervasive atmosphere is filled with bullshit. with all kinds of characters like AHA muddling things up.

it is complex, and in an unusual moment of clarity amidst all the hatred and demonizing Vim actually correctly postulated that Islam is not any one thing.

it is all about perspectives and perception, and how they are manipulated by ulteriorly motivated parties toward their own ends. so that what gets spread around is frustratingly lopsided.

i may not have a degree in Islamic studies, but i refuse to believe that Islam is inherently violent, or fascist, or misogynist. I am convinced that like all spiritual traditions, it is, at its core, or was, a thing of pure beauty. i mean just look at the music and the architecture. more breath-taking human creations are difficult if not entirely impossible to find.

and the situation now is misunderstanding building on misunderstanding...
 
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crackerjack

Well-known member
zhao said:
and the situation now is misunderstanding building on misunderstanding...
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What exactly do you mean by this? That Islam gets a rough ride in western media or that, say, SA and/or Iran are perfectly lovely places to live?

Apart from the observations about spiffy architecture and music, this is so woolly as to be meaningless.
 
fokse vektaire xeven

fokse vektaire xeven

Arab Nazi
Islam's detractors often depict it as a fundamentally martial religion- Muhammed was a solider

Islam=surrender, submission. Though in the spiritual sense of course
 
D

droid

Guest
crackerjack said:
What exactly do you mean by this? That Islam gets a rough ride in western media
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On that note:

Study shows 'demonisation' of Muslims

A "torrent" of negative stories has been revealed by a study of the portrayal of Muslims and Islam in the media, according to a report published yesterday.

Research into one week's news coverage showed that 91% of articles in national newspapers about Muslims were negative. The London mayor, Ken Livingstone, who commissioned the study, said the findings were a "damning indictment" of the media and urged editors and programme makers to review the way they portray Muslims.

"The overall picture presented by the media is that Islam is profoundly different from and a threat to the west," he said. "There is a scale of imbalance which no fair-minded person would think is right." Only 4% of the 352 articles studied were positive, he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2007/nov/14/pressandpublishing.religion
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C

crackerjack

Well-known member
droid said:
On that note:
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If that's the report I think it is it's already been thoroughly debunked. The stories being reported on were things like the London bombings. How was anyone supposed to put a positive spin on that?

It's not doing anyone - least of all muslims - any favours when honest and necessary reporting is lumped in with the kind of racist filth you see spread across the Daily Express.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
crackerjack said:
Apart from the observations about spiffy architecture and music, this is so woolly as to be meaningless.
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i realized this last night when i was posting -- this was meant to be a non specific opener which would hopefully spark some good discussion and information. like the article Droid just linked to.
 
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crackerjack

Well-known member
zhao said:
i realized this last night when i was posting -- this was meant to be a non specific opener which would hopefully spark some good discussion and information. like the article Droid just linked to.
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That report was done in large part by the MCB. You can read a pretty reasonable demolition of it here
http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/a...one_islamophobia_report_finally_published.php

(and if you want evidence of the kind of Islamaphobia which is indeed rampant in parts of the media and blogs at the moment, you can almost certinly find it in the comments boxes underneath)
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
zhao said:
i may not have a degree in Islamic studies, but i refuse to believe that Islam is inherently violent, or fascist, or misogynist.
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What do you mean 'inherently' here? I have colleagues, clients and friends who are Muslims, as so far none of them have tried to behead me or blow me up. I get on with them just the same as I would anyone else - and I, for my part, manage not to scream "PLEASE DON'T KILL ME!" every time I see them. So much for Islamophobia.

Claims that you can't be a Muslim and also participate in a rational, democratic society are clearly rubbish. But at the same time, look around the world - those parts of it where is Islamic cultures hold sway aren't exactly shining beacons of liberty and human rights, are they?
 
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droid

Guest
crackerjack said:
That report was done in large part by the MCB. You can read a pretty reasonable demolition of it here
http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/a...one_islamophobia_report_finally_published.php

(and if you want evidence of the kind of Islamaphobia which is indeed rampant in parts of the media and blogs at the moment, you can almost certinly find it in the comments boxes underneath)
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Thanks for that info. I just googled it based on a half remembered headline.

I dont know if Id call that a 'demolition' or a 'complete debunking', as it lists several positives (see below) and several negatives, which may well have been cherry picked - I dont know as I have'nt read the report itself, and TBH, I woudnt put much trust in a Harrys Place analysis.

When the report is dealing with the position of ordinary British muslims, who are - let us be frank - facing a tide of suspicion and hostility within this country, it is not at all bad.

There is a section which deals well with the plight of British muslim reporters, who - after 9/11 - found themselves being assigned to "muslim" stories and being treated as "a spokesperson for the faith".

Other parts of the report take aim at tabloid reports of banned piggy banks and cancelled Christmases: trivial and often untrue stories which are likely to provoke and increase feelings of insecurity, suspicion and anxiety amongst non-Muslims [and] feelings of insecurity, vulnerability and alienation amongst Muslims. That seems correct to me.

These are all points well made.
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I think there has been a less 'tainted' study on depictions of Islam and Muslims in the media. ill have a look.
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
droid said:
I think there has been a less 'tainted' study on depictions of Islam and Muslims in the media. ill have a look.
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I'd be interested to see it, since Islamaphobia obviously is a real phenomenon.

It's just hard to take seriously a report that cites Amir Khan's driving ban for speeding as an example of negative reporting.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
crackerjack said:
It's just hard to take seriously a report that cites Amir Khan's driving ban for speeding as an example of negative reporting.
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This reminds me of something Hannah Pool wrote a year or two ago - she usually writes a make-up column in the Guardian but occasionally some idiot lets her have a go at proper journalism - and she was saying that "black women are getting unfair criticism in the press at the moment", citing the examples of Naomi Campbell and Condi Rice. Hmm, now let me see...perhaps people have a go at these two individuals because Campbell is an obnoxious, stroppy, coked-up cow and Rice is basically Darth Vader?
 
Gavin

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
Mr. Tea said:
Claims that you can't be a Muslim and also participate in a rational, democratic society are clearly rubbish. But at the same time, look around the world - those parts of it where is Islamic cultures hold sway aren't exactly shining beacons of liberty and human rights, are they?
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GUANTA1.JPG


not exactly beacons...
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
Mr. Tea said:
This reminds me of something Hannah Pool wrote a year or two ago - she usually writes a make-up column in the Guardian but occasionally some idiot lets her have a go at proper journalism - and she was saying that "black women are getting unfair criticism in the press at the moment", citing the examples of Naomi Campbell and Condi Rice. Hmm, now let me see...perhaps people have a go at these two individuals because Campbell is an obnoxious, stroppy, coked-up cow and Rice is basically Darth Vader?
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Er...Hannah's a good mate of mine and the proper journalism she gets to have a crack at now includes a very well received book http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss...ield-keywords=hannah+pool&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go :p

(But I admit that column - iirc she was defending NC, that Zimbabwean woman off Big Brother and the mad TV 'nanny' who thinks the best way to raise a child is to let them stew in their own shit - wasn't her finest hour)
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I dunno, she just seems to be one of those people who looks for racism everywhere, and finds it because she wants to find it. I read something she'd written about how 'racist' it was that guitar pop is the big thing in music at the moment, having eclipsed the garage/R'nB that was big five or ten years ago...I mean, what can you say to this? Fashions in music come and go, don't they? Then she said that when she was young and all her friends were into Nirvana and Stone Roses, she was listening to M People, like this carried some kind of caché...fucking M People??? :eek:
 
D

droid

Guest
Mr. Tea said:
Yes, because by criticising one group of cultures I am automatically claiming that all others are beyond reproach. :slanted:

*sigh*
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So what point were you trying to make when you said 'those parts of it where is Islamic cultures hold sway aren't exactly shining beacons of liberty and human rights, are they?'

I'm not implying anything here, I'm just curious about this as out of every nation on Earth, the US and China have two of the worst records for incarceration and execution - is there some intrinsic quality in sino/anglo-saxon culture that is responsible for this? Or is it due to a myriad of political and historical reasons?

Have a look at the country reports from Amnesty. Islamic countries are condemned, and rightly so, but they are FAR from alone, or even the worst in their abuses.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/human-rights/human-rights-by-country
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
Mr. Tea said:
I dunno, she just seems to be one of those people who looks for racism everywhere, and finds it because she wants to find it. I read something she'd written about how 'racist' it was that guitar pop is the big thing in music at the moment, having eclipsed the garage/R'nB that was big five or ten years ago...I mean, what can you say to this?[/I] :eek:
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That's not what she said.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
Gavin said:
not exactly beacons...
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i feel silly for having to say this but there are a thousand different historical/social/economic/political reasons for rampant human rights violations in those parts of the world. it doesn't mean there is necessarily anything fundamentally evil about Islam. (and yes this is basically what i hear all over the place, even from very educated libertarians)
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
droid said:
So what point were you trying to make when you said 'those parts of it where is Islamic cultures hold sway aren't exactly shining beacons of liberty and human rights, are they?'
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I'm saying that the Islamic world in general - and I'm not trying to paint it as a single, homogeneous entity, before anyone says, I just mean Islamic countries, collectively - are generally not democratic and many have pretty terrible records on human rights.

droid said:
I'm not implying anything here, I'm just curious about this as out of every nation on Earth, the US and China have two of the worst records for incarceration and execution...
http://www.amnesty.org/en/human-rights/human-rights-by-country
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First off, I don't believe that for a second. According to Wikipedia, the US is 6th in terms simply of *numbers* of executions (and bear in mind it has the world's 3rd-biggest population - much bigger than Iran, which is second):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty#Global_distribution_of_death_penalty
Bear in mind also that Iran, among other countries, has the death penalty for 'crimes' such as sodomy and apostasy...the US does at least tend to execute actual murderers.

I knew something like this would be the response when I made my post, so can please just get away from this childish mode of thinking that goes "You criticise X but Y does bad stuff too, so shut up!". It would also be nice not to have to wade through these attempts at drawing moral equivalence that supposedly make one country that executes murderers "just as bad" as another country that executes people for sexual, religious or political crimes.
 
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