Castro's resignation and Cuba's future
- Thread starter elgato
- Start date
craner
Beast of Burden
He then started to spit and bluster about neo-liberalism and in an amazing passage, somehow to conflate Hayek with his collectivist ideological enemies (and the subject of his most famous book), the Nazis and Fascists of the 1930s
I remember that! It was pretty funny. That was a very nice Dissensus debut, Vimothy.
I remember that! It was pretty funny. That was a very nice Dissensus debut, Vimothy.
N
nomadologist
Guest
Totally understand your point, and good to bring up a firsthand account, but the tricky thing about the revolution in Cuba is that the blood Castro has on his hands and the corruption his reign suborned pale in comparison to the corruption and state-supported violence before the revolution, most of it U.S. sanctioned, supported, and bank-rolled.
Sadly, the mafia and the U.S. government had mutual financial interest in Cuba as a major port stop on the whole "French connection" route for heroin and cocaine coming into the U.S., and people were hardly "better off" under Batista. Things arguably would've become far bleaker had he or his relatives/party associates retained power there.
Of course, I don't think Castro solved Cuba's problems by any means, and he's not a good leader in my opinion, but in historical context the revolution (and Castro's rise to power) makes a whole hell of a lot of sense.
N
nomadologist
Guest
This is absolutely absurd. Meyer Lansky and Murder Inc. alone probably killed at least 1,000 people on contract for Batista or in order to keep him in power. Where did this guy get his info? I'd love to see his criteria for compiling this data set.
I don't doubt Castro has killed thousands, but so did Batista, without a doubt.
N
nomadologist
Guest
When he's not thumping reports published by the Heritage Foundation, Vim likes to check out a wide variety of politically divergent data sources with no political affiliation or obvious agenda.
vimothy
yurp
Did your uncle Frankie tell you that?
Post some alternative data, then. And in any case, the difference in magnitude is what is important. Maybe Batista killed two thousand. Maybe Castro killed 50 thousand. What did Castro's killings cost and what did they buy? I've put forward my argument upthread. If you have a criticism beyond disagreements with approximate totals of deaths, please make it.
World Atlas:
Batista regime (1952-59)
Mario Lazo, Dagger in the Heart : American Policy Failures in Cuba (1968), calls Castro's charge that 20,000 were killed by Batista a "cynical falsehood". He says "total deaths ... not more than 900 on both [sides]"
Mid-Century World, Newsweek (1970) believes the accusation: 20,000 executions in 2 years. (This is probably the only mainstream American source that does. Most simply ignore it.)
Hugh Thomas, Cuba, or, the pursuit of freedom (1971, 1988): 1,500-2,000 deaths as a direct consequence of the political crisis, 1952-58, including war.
Gilbert: 2,000 deaths in 6 years of war and punitive actions.
Mario Lazo, Dagger in the Heart : American Policy Failures in Cuba (1968), calls Castro's charge that 20,000 were killed by Batista a "cynical falsehood". He says "total deaths ... not more than 900 on both [sides]"
Mid-Century World, Newsweek (1970) believes the accusation: 20,000 executions in 2 years. (This is probably the only mainstream American source that does. Most simply ignore it.)
Hugh Thomas, Cuba, or, the pursuit of freedom (1971, 1988): 1,500-2,000 deaths as a direct consequence of the political crisis, 1952-58, including war.
Gilbert: 2,000 deaths in 6 years of war and punitive actions.
For the record, I didn't post "data" from the NRO, I posted a quote from an op-ed piece.
D
droid
Guest
Sorry for letting you hang on this Vimothy, I'm very busy right now and am avoiding forums unless I happen to get sucked into and argument...
I will get back to you as soon as I can.
I will get back to you as soon as I can.
vimothy
yurp
No worries mate -- I think that I have said as much as I want to say about Castro and am happy to leave it at that, though of course would be equally happy to read your response...
N
nomadologist
Guest
Did I ever say Castro was a good leader? No. I don't think he was. But let's not post numbers that on the face of them are obviously absurdly off and based on the unconfirmed data "cited" (I'm using this loosely) in books by people like Lazo (where did he get his numbers? I don't see any footnotes).
IdleRich
IdleRich
I can't believe that this kind of vindictive bullying is still going on
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/jun/16/lloydstsbgroup.banking?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/jun/16/lloydstsbgroup.banking?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront
Hmm, I wonder which option the Cuban cigar shop will go for.
other_life
bioconfused
Leo
Well-known member
who knows but from here, it seems like there's only some much people can take. in addition to decades of US sanctions and a repressive government, the general infrastructure of everything just seems to be shit, a decrepit health care system knocked on the head by COVID. at a certain point, people feel they have nothing to lose.
wonder if it's some sort of tipping point, the old regime no longer able to rein things in as they've done in the past. we'll see.
wonder if it's some sort of tipping point, the old regime no longer able to rein things in as they've done in the past. we'll see.
luka
Well-known member
rich psychos, the elite, aka the illuminati, want 'democracy' everywhere cos they know they can corrupt and control it.
look at cuba, chill nation, caribbean sea, all they do is listen to salsa music, drink rum and smoke cigars. would they be
better off under 'democracy'? would they fuck
look at cuba, chill nation, caribbean sea, all they do is listen to salsa music, drink rum and smoke cigars. would they be
better off under 'democracy'? would they fuck
