The Wire is over - discussion, spoilers inside

UFO over easy

online mahjong
some great points :) wish I'd been awake for that but probably for the best. I don't have much more to add apart from OT stuff -

nomadologist said:
starts going back to socially constructed gender norms and seems to conflate those with womanhood or female sexuality in reality, yes, I do bristle at that.

Fair enough, I find all that annoying too. It's the fact that these norms are socially constructed (I agree with you) which makes them useful in conversations like these, and in TV shows like the Wire where they're partially examining what it is that creates these characters. That's why, looking at the pressures that led Snoop to develop all her general character traits, I thought taking a closer look at her behaviour in her final scene was interesting. Obviously this is a big thing for you, but I didn't imply anywhere in the thread that I believed in femininity as an objective set of character traits.. I didn't make it clear either way, but you know, benefit of the doubt would've been nice!
 

nochexxx

harco pronting
The Snoop assasination scene was about how in a "dog eat dog" world like the ghetto you can't even be too angry with your best friend for stabbing you in the back, quite literally, or in this case shooting you in the head.

He says "You look good, girl" after she asks him if her hair looks good. I think that's a pretty gangsta way to go out, asking the person who's about to shoot you how you look.

It's pretty much a gesture of resigned defiance.

i agree, at least this is the way i interpreted it. the same applies to props death scene.

btw has anyone seen the corner? i've just got hold of this with the intention to get down to some obsessive watching.

feel free to pm me for links if you want!
 

Mr Jeg

suck your thumb
^ yup. just rewatched the whole thing last week, in fact. it's good. nowhere near the level of 'the wire' but still very good viewing. focuses almost entirely on the users, their families/communities, and the effects drugs have on both. definitely recommended for anyone who loves the wire - not least because a LOT of actors from the wire turn up in various roles!

the last 10 mins of the final episode is dedicated to an interview with the real people who inspired four of the main characters of the show - I would LOVE SO MUCH for the wire to do something like this! but i guess it's a lot harder to get on-camera interviews with hardened criminals and notorious police than reformed drug addicts...
 

benjybars

village elder.
The Corner is excellent and well worth watching just to see so many wire actors playing opposite roles (dealers/users in The Corner are po-po in The Wire and vice versa)

it's pretty hard watching tho.. ALOT grimmer than the wire simply because it never moves away from the corners..

also, watch out for lester's hands! :eek:
 

nochexxx

harco pronting
The Corner is excellent and well worth watching just to see so many wire actors playing opposite roles (dealers/users in The Corner are po-po in The Wire and vice versa)

it's pretty hard watching tho.. ALOT grimmer than the wire simply because it never moves away from the corners..

also, watch out for lester's hands! :eek:


sounds wicked, can't wait to get stuck in.
 

tryptych

waiting for a time
Have to say I don't think the Wire's all that really.

I mean, it's a cut above most police dramas, but I get a vaguely unsatisfying feeling after watching. I always want to watch more, but often it just leaves me feeling empty and unsatisfied. It feels a bit cynically put together in that way.

It's good, but I really can't relate to people who talk in hushed tones and think that it's somehow beyond a TV series, that it stands alone against all others. Personally I preferred Six Feet Under, or even the Sopranos.

But then I've only seen the first two seasons.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
Have to say I don't think the Wire's all that really.

I mean, it's a cut above most police dramas, but I get a vaguely unsatisfying feeling after watching. I always want to watch more, but often it just leaves me feeling empty and unsatisfied. It feels a bit cynically put together in that way.

It's good, but I really can't relate to people who talk in hushed tones and think that it's somehow beyond a TV series, that it stands alone against all others. Personally I preferred Six Feet Under, or even the Sopranos.

But then I've only seen the first two seasons.

I don't think the drama or the dramatic acting in the Wire is all that good, I just like the topical nature of most of the plot elements and the frankness of its exploration of corruption in the media, government, police force, etc. Not many shows before it really painted a picture of how all three often work together in destroying society rather than building it...
 

nochexxx

harco pronting
Have to say I don't think the Wire's all that really.

I get a vaguely unsatisfying feeling after watching. I always want to watch more, but often it just leaves me feeling empty and unsatisfied.

i think you've nailed it on the head here. the wire doesn't aim to satisfy, which makes it the greatest tv show imo.

other shows tend to wrap up their scenes in an altogether conveinent way by giving the majority of viewers what they want to see or hear, usually by dumbing down in various ways such as always using understandable dialogue fo their chosen subject matter, or offering over simplified plot explanations, the use of over dramatised soundtrack music, and the most irritating bugbear of all is they must always 'complete' a story and use a 'happy ending'.

the wire does a very good job at avoiding these and this is what makes it so good. i'm shocked it ever managed to make the money to be produced for our screens.
 

tryptych

waiting for a time
i think you've nailed it on the head here. the wire doesn't aim to satisfy, which makes it the greatest tv show imo.

other shows tend to wrap up their scenes in an altogether conveinent way by giving the majority of viewers what they want to see or hear, usually by dumbing down in various ways such as always using understandable dialogue fo their chosen subject matter, or offering over simplified plot explanations, the use of over dramatised soundtrack music, and the most irritating bugbear of all is they must always 'complete' a story and use a 'happy ending'.

the wire does a very good job at avoiding these and this is what makes it so good. i'm shocked it ever managed to make the money to be produced for our screens.

That's not really what I mean - I'm not not satisfied by the lack of conventional TV elements - dramatised soundtrack, plot explanations, "complete" story etc. Quite the opposite, I find those satisfying...

I'm unsatisfied because I don't think it delivers what it's proponents claim it does - i.e. the ultimate TV experience or something along those lines.

And I would argue that the Wire does exactly give it's viewers what they want - a degree of faux "realism", a feel that they're watching something edgy, and in that way it's cynical. Claims about being the most realistic police drama ever, etc, whereas it's blatantly obvious that realism is sacrificed for dramatic and stylistic points.

I agree with Nomad that the different angles on corruption and the modern drug trade are good though, and there isn't anything else that really covers that.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
That's not really what I mean - I'm not not satisfied by the lack of conventional TV elements - dramatised soundtrack, plot explanations, "complete" story etc. Quite the opposite, I find those satisfying...

I'm unsatisfied because I don't think it delivers what it's proponents claim it does - i.e. the ultimate TV experience or something along those lines.

And I would argue that the Wire does exactly give it's viewers what they want - a degree of faux "realism", a feel that they're watching something edgy, and in that way it's cynical. Claims about being the most realistic police drama ever, etc, whereas it's blatantly obvious that realism is sacrificed for dramatic and stylistic points.

I agree with Nomad that the different angles on corruption and the modern drug trade are good though, and there isn't anything else that really covers that.

Yeah, I agree. I think there are many many cringe-worthy moments where the supposed "realism" is in fact a very hackneyed sort of Hollywood version of realism. Lots of pathos gets melodramatized into bathos.

For example, I remember a scene where Michael and Snoop invade a home and shoot the adults in it, leaving the children. One of the children runs out the back. The sad part is, in reality, this would probably not have even been that unexpected--kids in those neighborhoods hear about these sorts of things, witness them, have them happen to relatives, etc., all the time. But the directors and actors pounded you over the head with the "pathos" using shots of the kids cowering and traumatized. It was just a little overdone.
 

nochexxx

harco pronting
That's not really what I mean - I'm not not satisfied by the lack of conventional TV elements - dramatised soundtrack, plot explanations, "complete" story etc. Quite the opposite, I find those satisfying...

other than one friend here in the uk i don't know anyone who watches the wire, so perhaps there's too much over hype about it being REAL elsewhere. proponents aside i'm just glad that at last a tv show has had the balls to go (at least in someways) in the opposite direction. sure it's not perfect, but at least it has tried to do something else.

And I would argue that the Wire does exactly give it's viewers what they want - a degree of faux "realism", a feel that they're watching something edgy, and in that way it's cynical. Claims about being the most realistic police drama ever, etc, whereas it's blatantly obvious that realism is sacrificed for dramatic and stylistic points.

as for giving wire fans what they want, you have to remember that this series has been going for 5 years and it's only been in the last year or so that the wire has developed a significant fan base.

bearing this in mind i honestly don't believe that david simon from the beginning created this show with the view to fuel a small minority viewing public.

after watching his lectures on youtube it seemed apparent to me that his inspiration for the wire derived partly from his working past as a police reporter for the baltimorre sun, and had developed a personal vendetta towards current american society. so i agree with you that it does set out to make stylistic points.

forgived me for pointing out the obvious but the majority of people don't know what they really want until it's handed on a plate for them to decide. having now had the benefit of seeing 5 seasons of the wire, fans know what they want and will expect this from future tv drama shows. the bar has at long last been raised.


Yeah, I agree. I think there are many many cringe-worthy moments where the supposed "realism" is in fact a very hackneyed sort of Hollywood version of realism. Lots of pathos gets melodramatized into bathos.


as for how real it is i can't honestly say, as i've never lived in the ghetto. one thing i will say is it does paint an accurate picture of the capitalist workplace.
 

tryptych

waiting for a time
Finally finished watching season 5, and I was probably cynically overstating my point above... ;)

Series 4 really was fantastic, I found the plot in series 5 a bit too much OTT - I could buy the whole Hamsterdam storyline as sort of plausible, but McNulty and Lester's schemes verged on the ridiculous.

A friend of mine claims that the Barksdale/Stansfield war in series 3 is an allegory of the Iraq insurgence, with the Barksdale crew as the US forces and Stansfield as the Iraq resistance. Not sure I buy that myself though..
 

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
A friend of mine claims that the Barksdale/Stansfield war in series 3 is an allegory of the Iraq insurgence, with the Barksdale crew as the US forces and Stansfield as the Iraq resistance. Not sure I buy that myself though..

What, with all the crack sellers going around flogging "WMD"?

Nah, no reference there at all, must be a coincidence....
 

nochexxx

harco pronting
F

A friend of mine claims that the Barksdale/Stansfield war in series 3 is an allegory of the Iraq insurgence, with the Barksdale crew as the US forces and Stansfield as the Iraq resistance. Not sure I buy that myself though..


yes this was talked about during one of the wire commentary dvd's. highly recommended viewing!
 

viktorvaughn

Well-known member
Just finished series 3! RIP Stringer, the bit between him and Avon was amazing, proper Shakespearean stuff. Wow, so good.
 

Gabba Flamenco Crossover

High Sierra Skullfuck
I still need to see s4 and s5.

Amusing scenes at a party I went to recently, where someone said 'I've got it all on torrent, obviously, but I think I'm still gonna buy the boxset... out of respect." Sage nodding and agreement all round.

The Wire... too good to steal.

I've started watching the Sopranos recently, cos it completey passed me by when it was on. I don't think I ever saw a complete episode on scheduled TV. But it doesn't grab me in the same way as The Wire. Partly because it doesn't ask the big questions about crime & society, I think. Also there's a massive part of the Sopranos pathos which is to do with being middle aged with teenage kids, and I just find it quite hard to relate to.

Tony is a monster of a character though.
 
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