On the subject of speed in Jungle

interesting thread

Naphta said:

Ahh, 'breakage'!!! Yeah, there was much discussion and agonising over genre names over on the d+b resistance HQ forum (Subvert Central) a year or two ago... I argued that as with the drum n bass/ happy hardcore split in 94, another split would be a good and necessary thing... and that a separate identity would require a different name, 'drum n bass' now having crapped all over itself once too many times.

Unfortunately I was out-voted and hence the confusion for punters re: what exactly links a tune by Equinox with a tune by Twisted Indidual? (answer = nothing except tempo)

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why not lead by example again and try to make music at 160-165 bpm? that way there would be more room for experiments, djs who are ready to play slower records would have enough new tracks to do so and those who would like to mix it with new stuff would be able to do it at a slower tempo? and your music would still have its own identity. just a thought.

jay-s said:

interesting thread


why not lead by example again and try to make music at 160-165 bpm? that way there would be more room for experiments, djs who are ready to play slower records would have enough new tracks to do so and those who would like to mix it with new stuff would be able to do it at a slower tempo? and your music would still have its own identity. just a thought.

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if there weren't enough tracks initially you could just fill up with old skool! i'm sure everyone would be happy with that, problem solved

actually quite a few producers are returning to do tunes at slower speeds to bring back the space and funk to dnb. the pitch up in speed works well within being on the decks but doesnt translate well when producing at such hyped up levels. i think for me that has been the most frustrating thing to have to make such drastic changes in pitch to play classics with newer material. the rise in bpm mainly was to make the 2 step break made monstrous by the rise of techstep flow smoother. the synth heavy tunes and those reliant upon a trance sound benefitted greatly. newer artists such as calibre and others brought back the funk and slowed it down considerably at the same time to allow the music to breathe. the have brought back music to dnb as to what danny flytronix, jmj and richie, ez rollers, guardians of dalliance, helen t were doing that really shined on the ladies as well as the fellas. there was great music as well as dancefloor killers. metalheadz and moving shadow are still the lasting labels with reinforced that pushed it all on the floor.
dnb now has lost that identity to just make the most over the top smasher with some sci fi sample. its killing the scenes in the us i have played in. 8 hours of robotechstep just isnt doing anything anymore. the play jonny l stuff which is done well at 180 on +6 or higher. no one is dancing or moving. just staring. its been great to see people slowly bringing tempos down becuase the long standing producers have said lets get the speeds down some. get people dancing again not just buggin out on the floor.dom and roland, dillinja, many others.

Seems like a simple enouigh solution, doesn't t? Personally, that's what I'm at.. but I had trouble persuading other like-minded producers to do the same - the felt that such a move would finally seperate them from the drum n bass scene and its ready-made audience - a scene they hope to somehow reclaim for 'good' drum n bass!

rush rush

blissblogger said:

one thing about the bass in a lot of the classic jungle is that it's both the bedrock of the tune and also this unstable, trepidatious presence -- it frees up the drums to go haywire but it's not entirely a solid foundation itself

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bassnation said:

yeah, some jungle tunes, the combination of the beats and the bass were like some intricate clockwork machine ticking at different tempos but somehow all aligned in the same purpose.

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important stuff here. have to admit I didn’t fully understand what all the hype was about jungle until I realized I had been mentally separating the basslines from the breaks and finally started hearing them at the same time, with the bass functioning like a second or even primary kick drum.

listening to music that’s more harmony and melody centric (e.g. western classical) is often about separation: you train your ear to discern specific voice lines within a naturally blended mass of harmony.

whereas with dance music it’s the opposite: learning to hear how all these very clearly defined sounds spanning the entire frequency spectrum work together as one unit to create a sense of motion.

mvuent said:

whereas with dance music it’s the opposite: learning to hear how all these very clearly defined sounds spanning the entire frequency spectrum work together as one unit to create a sense of motion.

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not that every aspect has to feel homogeneous. obviously you can have contrasting motions, things that don't quite align, etc., within the larger motion.

Brokeman said:

I'm working in making a graph (geekery!) charting the progression of tempo across Hardcore, Jungle and Garage and the shift seems pretty consistent.
If anyone's interested in helping with the graph (I think I'll try doing a proper thread on this soon) I'm going to gather 50 or so tracks from each year and average the tempos across them. I'm thinking about using the colours and design style of the London Underground Tube map as a little homage to the roots.

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this motherfucker never delivered

jay-s said:

interesting thread


why not lead by example again and try to make music at 160-165 bpm? that way there would be more room for experiments, djs who are ready to play slower records would have enough new tracks to do so and those who would like to mix it with new stuff would be able to do it at a slower tempo? and your music would still have its own identity. just a thought.

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^ footwork

droid said:

Another side effect (and maybe a contributing factor) to this is the dumbing down of DJng. I learnt to mix via jungle in 95/96, and it has to be said that the average jungle DJ's job was much harder in those days. The sheer range of production styles, lack of any real formal structure, and variation in breaks and rhythm made things much more difficult - especially playing out in a club with a shit monitor... learning how to mix thru a super clean Photek production to an early Emotif tune to a dirty Bristol amen to something by Alex Reece etc, is a lot more challenging than mixing a load of Diilinja, Bad Company and High Contrast tunes.

I remember the first time I played after a house DJ, and noticed (to my horror) that he'd turned the crossfader off, and was just using the main faders for his mix. After being forced to use all of the tools of the mixer, chops/cuts/kills/eq's etc. in order to mix jungle I was amazed that there were DJ's out there who'd never even touched the kill switches, and I often wonder if the aspiring D+B DJ's of today are really equipped to deal with anything other than the 4/4 'techno with a backbeat' style thats been dominant for so long.

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no no no no!

You still won't except that the trance aesthetic has to be exercised from the western body politic. People like Sasha and Digweed are insanely smooth djs, harmonically coherent key mixes, superb use of the faders and volumes. They used all the EQ tools of a mixer.

Compare to any Kenny Ken mix where he's just cutting it all up. It doesn't sound smooth, you can feel the friction of his hands. But that's why its great.

give me a hilarious grooverider clang over Sashman any day.

the ravers want smooth mixes. It accords with their E buzz. It's why I am still on the anti-E crusade.

other_life said:

this motherfucker never delivered



^ footwork

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the cunts at rym went mental when I posted an entirely accurate totally objective review of Sasha and Digweed Northern Exposure.

All non-london ravers are going straight to hell.

pretentious self-obsessed pseudo-spiritual hippy nonsense complete with pillaried tesco value world music cd ethnic wailing on disc 1. Drop 12 tabs of Orange Sunshine and Get some Claude Young or DJ Randall down yer gullet, then you will see what a dj can do live with two turntables, and if worst comes to the worst, a crossfader! Track selection is everything, and these cynical branding merchants do not have it, and never will. You can just imagine doing this as a job, and then going home to wack on Slayer.

EDIT Apr 2023: It's hilarious that people will accuse me of not knowing anything about electronic music when this was panned by electronic music critics at the time of release, and I don't even respect dance music journalists who wrote for DJ Mag, Muzik Mag, Mixmag etc. Of course, they soon changed their tune when they realised that big money could be made from turning the mdma comedown into yet another commodified post-superclub experience, but that, as they say, is a topic for another day.

There are far better albums under the banner of ambient techno, just say no to regressive trance.

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