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Thread: Batman

  1. #16
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    i liked the first two burton batman films. like someone else said, i thought they did a good job of bringing the darkness back to batman after the tv series (isnt every new batman film said to be 'darker' or a better depiction of the comic than the last one?!) but still keeping it somewhat playful. never thought they were that camp. but the last one with bale in it, took it self far too seriously i thought. also seemed to introduce lots of more generic action movie type elements that didnt seem to fit that well with batman (or not as i know it at least). looking forward to this new one a lot though. hope it meets expectations.

  2. #17
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    I saw the new Batman at the weekend... it's good, but too long, and doesn't really have a pleasant story arc - a series of explosive, climatic sequences without the story as a whole reaching a proper climax.

    I think if you're a Batman fan and know the canon, you'll probably enjoy it more than the casual viewer. There's a lot of Miller-esque elements from Year One and The Dark Knight Returns. Heath Ledger is great, Christian Bale is ok - I still hate his deep put on Batman voice.

    The major problem I had with Batman begins is how dumb he plays the role - getting Morgan Freeman's character to do all the science/tech stuff, and shrugging his shoulders - they have too much of a Bond/Q style relationship, whereas I've always thought of Bruce Wayne as a polymath who does all his own forensic chemistry, builds his own suits and Batmobile etc.

    The new film eases off on this a bit, but then is also nor particularly convincing when Bale does technical stuff on his own.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokse vektaire xeven View Post
    I'm surprised by the ongoing popularity of all these superhero franchises amongst grown adults. admit it you cynical aspiritual motherfuckers have a shameful secret jones for the Perseusian

    maybe proves the concept of divinity is fundamental to human nature after all...

    i'm sorry but its utter nonsense to say that comic book heroes didn't have the odd moment of doubting their own existence, its safe to say the person who wrote that hasn't read marvel comics in any depth whatsoever.

    spiderman, hulk, swamp thing, etc etc - each of those characters were tortured, lost, doubting and dark. even back in the early incarnation of each. sure theres been some utterly crap movies, but a lot have stayed suprisingly true to marvels vision.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by IdleRich;143554

    He's got a point there - maybe that answers the question to a certain extent, comic geeks are so into it they [I
    have[/I] to go and see the film even if they know it will disappoint them, they simply can't help themselves. With this audience guaranteed and big budget promotional campaigns to top it up with casual movie-goers it's hardly surprising that these films keep rolling off the production line, I don't think you have to posit a "shameful secret jones for the Perseusian" or longing for the divine to explain it.
    superhero comics are secular myths. the fans have already bought into them. i honestly find it pretty piquant grown, educated men are seduced by these ridiculous ubermensch fantasies. of course heroes in public life are in short supply these days. times are jaded.

    perseus was on of the greek heroes- ie half man half god. people usually invoke prometheus when superheroes are under discussion but i'd think the creation of mankind would be a bit of a stretch even for batman...

    Quote Originally Posted by bassnation View Post
    i'm sorry but its utter nonsense to say that comic book heroes didn't have the odd moment of doubting their own existence, its safe to say the person who wrote that hasn't read marvel comics in any depth whatsoever.

    spiderman, hulk, swamp thing, etc etc - each of those characters were tortured, lost, doubting and dark. even back in the early incarnation of each.

    it isn't safe to say that, as peter bagge has done a spiderman comic for marvel. i've taken the end of the piece out of context but you've misread it. he says "make jokes regarding the absurdity of their existence"- this NEVER happened in the comics. he isn't talking about the endless pages of wordy introspection which he covers earlier in the article- but a jokey self awareness, a breaking of the fourth wall if you will. the conclusion of the article is very similar to yours


    Quote Originally Posted by bassnation View Post
    sure theres been some utterly crap movies, but a lot have stayed suprisingly true to marvels vision.

    Quote Originally Posted by peter bagge
    still it's amazing how slavishly true these big-budget Hollywood flicks are to the superhero source material.
    Last edited by fokse vektaire xeven; 23-07-2008 at 11:26 PM.

  5. #20

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    @fokse vektaire xeven:

    Read some Grant Morrison or maybe some Warren Ellis.

  6. #21

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    I've read both...so what?

  7. #22

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    @vimothy... read some fletcher hanks

  8. #23
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  9. #24
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    ive booked the first screening of this on friday at my local cinema.

    it better not dissapoint.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by noel emits View Post
    But does Heather have a point? Is the appeal of superhero comics that of wanting to be saved by some mythical ubermensch, or is it in fact the need of the reader to identify with externalised depictions of those archetypes within him/her (ha!) self?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokse vektaire xeven View Post
    superhero comics are secular myths. the fans have already bought into them. i honestly find it pretty piquant grown, educated men are seduced by these ridiculous ubermensch fantasies.
    Two points
    a) who's to say that educated men haven't seen right through the ubermensch hero myth but enjoy the dramatic stories and spectacular action anyway? Is this research or just generic left-elitism?
    b) How is this unique to superhero films as against, er, pretty much every other genre of action film ever?

  12. #27
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    "perseus was on of the greek heroes- ie half man half god. people usually invoke prometheus when superheroes are under discussion but i'd think the creation of mankind would be a bit of a stretch even for batman..."
    That's what I said here wasn't it?

    "I'm guessing it means something along the lines of "of or relating to Perseus" (and by extension, the dynasty of Greek heroes that followed) the hero who killed Medusa."
    Anyways...

    "superhero comics are secular myths. the fans have already bought into them. i honestly find it pretty piquant grown, educated men are seduced by these ridiculous ubermensch fantasies. of course heroes in public life are in short supply these days. times are jaded."
    OK, so the films aren't where the longing for the divine occurs, that's already happened with the comics and the films are just a cash-in on this - sounds plausible I guess but why are there so many adaptations right now?

    "says "make jokes regarding the absurdity of their existence"- this NEVER happened in the comics. he isn't talking about the endless pages of wordy introspection which he covers earlier in the article- but a jokey self awareness, a breaking of the fourth wall if you will. the conclusion of the article is very similar to yours"
    In Watchmen there are bits when the guys are remembering their careers as superheroes and asking what it was that possessed grown men to make them dress up in leotards and masks and fight crime. Doesn't this fit the bill?
    And like Slothrop says, why do you say this applies more to superhero films than any other action film (or any film at all) that has a hero? Is it simply because the term "superhero" makes it more explicit?

  13. #28

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    I'm surprised you're even questioning it. it's far from a radical interpretation of superhero comics, its a standard one. these characters undergo some kind of gnosis that tranforms them into a supernatural being. they then proceed to use these powers to enforce a moral code. it's archetypal, these stories have been part of the human cultural landscape for thousands of years.

    of course "adult" superhero comics sketch in a bit of conflict and character detail. dark knight returns, watchmen etc in their day were intended as iconoclastic. but they still do not contain irony. they take themselves very seriously. nonetheless both have been made into the kind of overblown cgi fests beloved of the wachowski brothers et al, which is a little ironic...

    why are there so many adaptations now? it's comfort food isnt it...look at whats going on around you.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokse vektaire xeven View Post
    why are there so many adaptations now? it's comfort food isnt it...look at whats going on around you.
    Nothing so profound. Its the same reason there's so many remakes - creative bankruptcy.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    Nothing so profound. Its the same reason there's so many remakes - creative bankruptcy.
    It's not creative bankruptcy, it's commercial caution. Movies are way more expensive in real terms, superhero films are reliable bankers. Marketing is way more expensive, remakes, adaptartions and franchises come with built-in recognition - the story is already half way familiar.

    There's also a huge internationaal market for flicks that are low on dialogue (less of that awkward dubbing) and high on action.

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