Hipsters: Scourge or Irrelevence

echevarian

babylon sister

CHAOTROPIC

on account
But is this not this privileging of the culturally interesting over other possible human or aesthetic concerns a) the very critique which is being made of hipsters and b) therefore highly suspect and open to question, on the grounds I've suggested.

Aside from 'interesting', what other 'human or aesthetic concerns' are worth bothering with, in strangers? You mean, if they're fuckable? Or supa-charming? I guess. But they're still trying to buy there way into conversation, into consideration, with dirty money. Yes, mainstream consumption helps fund everyone else. Yes, I still find it irritating when I talk to someone who shows all the outward signs of similar taste, similar sensibility, only to find that they're essentially uninterested, essentially uninteresting.

I'm not obsessed with hipsters. I just wish they weren't so obsessed with me*

*not actually 'me'. 'Us'. I dunno. You're probably all hipsters :D
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
& I think they're stupid & they make bad art. Relativise that :p

Eurgh...those little printed ultra-stylised wall decoration things you (used to) see in Spitalfields Market for adorning the studio flats of twentysomethings who work in 'meedja'. :mad:
 
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noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
The question I'm personally really interested in is: Why does it seems as if so much of contemporary culture - especially that which cannot stop declaring its disdain for hipsters - nonetheless feels that it has define itself against hipsters, and what hipsters represent?
I wonder if the reason that the disdain you identify is so apparent now is that the phenomenon itself, that is to say subcultural one-upmanship for it's own sake (i.e. that which defines itself entirely in relation to that which it is not, a purely negative formulation), is actually on the way out. Once the style of negation became identifiable as distinct from more general trends and generational cycles, and from the signs it had cloaked itself in, it became suddenly visible to the broader culture and critical antibodies are produced to counter what was now revealed as an imposter and an evolutionary dead end. So as not to appear pre-empted it has then by it's own logic had to decide that it is indeed no longer cool. Something like that, it's a self-generated backlash basically.

As others have said here, what has been found objectionable about attitudes of blind-hipsterism is the deception that is sometimes perceived, perhaps most acutely by those with experience and investment in the styles it apes. 'They' may appear to be regular open-minded young hep-cats as we have come to know them, but up close it is something else, or rather it is nothing at all. Blind-hipsterism, unencumbered by the need to provide anything of substance of it's own, other than negation, or perhaps at a generous reading, curation, going unidentified has been able to edge it's way vapidly to the centre of your local cultural moshpit, much as a lifeless CJD prion can turn an infected brain to mush.

Hmm, not sure I want to find myself in accord with Charlie Brooker :slanted: Did anyone notice that 'the idiots' in Nathan Barley were actually mostly portrayed as rather sympathetic characters, with Dan Aschroft coming across as a pompous ass for not wanting to join in?

body_snatchers.jpg

'Jeffrey spots someone still listening to Funky in '09.'

;)
 
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josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
Aside from 'interesting', what other 'human or aesthetic concerns' are worth bothering with, in strangers?

I don't know. That they're sincere, perhaps? Or kind? Or honest? Or intelligent? Or challenging? Or admirable? Or wise? Or flawed? Or weak? Or vulnerable? Or nothing?
 

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
I wonder if the reason that the disdain you identify is so apparent now is that the phenomenon itself, that is to say subcultural one-upmanship for it's own sake (i.e. that which defines itself entirely in relation to that which it is not, a purely negative formulation), is actually on the way out.

I would suggest that it is clearly not on the way out, since subcultural one-upmanship continues to express itself in the form of a competitive disdain for "uninteresting" hipsters.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
I would suggest that it is clearly not on the way out, since subcultural one-upmanship continues to express itself in the form of a competitive disdain for "uninteresting" hipsters.

I think "cultural capital" will continue to be more and more important with Web 2.0 and all that, so you are right, it isn't going away. And incidentally, thanks for teasing all this stuff out on this thread Josef.

I think in your either/or point upthread I am really in the "hipsters are largely irrelevant" camp. Most of the stuff that gets talked on here is pretty trivial and irrelevant anyway in the final analysis... but I don't actually spend any time at all worrying about trendy twats in real life - it can be a mild diversion I guess.

Really what they do has virtually no effect on what I do. Occasionally one has to stand up for what one likes or criticise an especially hamfisted attempt at cultural one upmanship in the press or something but it doesn't really amount to very much.

Having set out my stall with reggae I've watched it come in and out of popularity over the years and seen all manner of idiocy committed in its name or in response to it.

If you ever want to know the health of the genre the easiest way is to see where it is stocked in big shops like HMV - if it's on the up it will be alongside the dance/urban stuff. If not it gets sidelined over to the "world music" section.

It can be annoying when someone who has been into the music you love for 5 minutes turns around and says it's now officially All Over, but to me that just means there will be more bargains to pick up in second hand shops.

What is more annoying is the repeated myth in the press that reggae has been moribund since the death of Bob Marley - perhaps this is a more corporate hipsterism?
 

Pestario

tell your friends
perhaps hipsters are just locusts swarming from subculture to subculture in 7 years cycles. When they come just hide in your bunker with your precious crops and wait it out ;)
 
D

droid

Guest
I think in your either/or point upthread I am really in the "hipsters are largely irrelevant" camp. Most of the stuff that gets talked on here is pretty trivial and irrelevant anyway in the final analysis... but I don't actually spend any time at all worrying about trendy twats in real life - it can be a mild diversion I guess.

Really what they do has virtually no effect on what I do. Occasionally one has to stand up for what one likes or criticise an especially hamfisted attempt at cultural one upmanship in the press or something but it doesn't really amount to very much.

Having set out my stall with reggae I've watched it come in and out of popularity over the years and seen all manner of idiocy committed in its name or in response to it.

You beat me to it. This is pretty much my attitude.

I obviously wouldn't spend any time in real-life worrying about them as I rarely go out, and when I do its to fairly un-hip events. I'd add that I don't spend anytime online worrying about them either. I think this is the first time Ive ever commented on the topic, and most of the bloggers I read are scene archivists who don't really discuss or care about them either.

Id argue that the hipster-as-oppositional-defining-stereotype is just as nebulous as the image of the uber-hipster stereotype itself. it certainly doesn't relate to my experience.
 

CHAOTROPIC

on account
Eurgh...those little printed ultra-stylised wall decoration things you (used to) see in Spitalfields Market for adorning the studio flats of twentysomethings who work in 'meedja'. :mad:

I direct the esteeped gentleman's attention to fashion student performance art.
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
I direct the esteeped gentleman's attention to fashion student performance art.

Tch! Mocking the afflicted! There's a difference between, um, that and what this thread is talking about though, club kids are in a separate little 80s world of their own. Purgatory, one could call it.
 

CHAOTROPIC

on account
Tch! Mocking the afflicted! There's a difference between, um, that and what this thread is talking about though, club kids are in a separate little 80s world of their own. Purgatory, one could call it.

Yeah ;) But I do think there's a similarity in their imitation of artistic endeavour simply as a means of furthering a social agenda.

Of course, addressing Josef's points, this distinction implies that some people make art for other reasons, but I think they do, even if it's a matter of degree. That joker sticking pins through himself thinks he's Franko B, for example, & he thinks what he's doing has equivalent value, because his appreciation stops at the image.

Beyond the way hipsters dress & the subcultures they engage with, is the work they produce. These streams of mix-tapes, DJ sets, bands, PAs, 'performance art pieces', upwardly-mobile high-concept graffiti, photography, fashion ... innovative fucking hats. It's something Nathan Barley brought out, I think: the uncomfortableness of relentlessly productive, comfortably shallow people drowning culture in gallons of substandard, attention-grabbing shit, until everything else is swallowed up, LIKE TEARS IN A MONSOON!!! They implicate everyone who makes anything with their own competitive status-grubbing shallowness & force anyone looking for substantive culture to make impossible-to-justify fascist judgements about intangibles like intention, if all culture isn't to be flattened to the level of the image.

They're berks & they shouldn't be allowed!!! :mad:
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
LIKE TEARS IN A MONSOON!!!

Beautiful image, you should do something with that.

I can't really engage too much, I feel so outside things now, and aside from being really annoyed at how rude some of the kids are in Shoreditch, it hasn't really effected me.

I do wonder about the culture of production and how much of it is, y'know, just not wanting to drown, and also people now feeling the need to participate, which must be an incredible pressure, especially for people who essentially culturally belong anyway, going back to k-punks idea of stimulating the need for comfort.

I know that my cultural production essentially mirrors that which is around me, but, y'know, it comes out all wrong - I know that I'll never be able to do anything right, and I wonder what the fear is like for people who can do things right, and how it must feel to know that you belong. I've always imagined that the inner despair would be kinda the obverse of mine.
 

straight

wings cru
Yeah ;)

Beyond the way hipsters dress & the subcultures they engage with, is the work they produce. These streams of mix-tapes, DJ sets, bands, PAs, 'performance art pieces', upwardly-mobile high-concept graffiti, photography, fashion ... innovative fucking hats. It's something Nathan Barley brought out, I think: the uncomfortableness of relentlessly productive, comfortably shallow people drowning culture in gallons of substandard, attention-grabbing shit, until everything else is swallowed up, LIKE TEARS IN A MONSOON!!! They implicate everyone who makes anything with their own competitive status-grubbing shallowness & force anyone looking for substantive culture to make impossible-to-justify fascist judgements about intangibles like intention, if all culture isn't to be flattened to the level of the image.

They're berks & they shouldn't be allowed!!! :mad:

This harks back to the art college thread from a few weeks ago. Also reminds me of a fair few 'freelance designer' chums of mine who tend to trundle along on the fact that pops pays the rent on their studio cum self perpetuating media nodes
 

Shonx

Shallow House
I've seen a few DJs at nights I'd associate with that sort of scene, and the mix of music was what you might call blogline - odds and sods of bassline, dubstep, crunk, old rave, nu rave, hyphy, garage, grime, jungle - mostly decent tunes, and all fairly obvious big anthems of their respective scenes, but the whole thing got a bit directionless after a while because the sets didn't have the context and inter-connected web of significance that you'd get from a pure jungle set or a pure grime set.

Does seem that taking various tunes from different genres is actually closer in some ways to original balearic in a way though, rather than the compartmentalisation that has come in since, and I quite welcomed that in sets by Sinden, Switch, Diplo, etc. We're really talking about this in a more superficial way though aren't we, and it's almost impossible to tell in someone else what's desperately trying to be cool and what's a wide-ranging interest in different styles.

I mean to be honest isn't there just as much superficiality in those sticking with one genre and buying the latest big tunes and then not playing them as soon as they're a couple of months past freshness.
 

mms

sometimes
Does seem that taking various tunes from different genres is actually closer in some ways to original balearic in a way though, rather than the compartmentalisation that has come in since, and I quite welcomed that in sets by Sinden, Switch, Diplo, etc. We're really talking about this in a more superficial way though aren't we, and it's almost impossible to tell in someone else what's desperately trying to be cool and what's a wide-ranging interest in different styles.

I mean to be honest isn't there just as much superficiality in those sticking with one genre and buying the latest big tunes and then not playing them as soon as they're a couple of months past freshness.

don't think that has alot to do with baleric, but there was and is a time when things get boring in genres and people mix musical genres that are often compartmentalized together, often before there is enough good music in that genre to warrant playing a whole night of it.
i personally just try and play good records old and new when i dj but i always have, sometimes more or less.
 

Buick6

too punk to drunk
The thing with hipsters comopared to the beatniks is that 'hipsters' have evolved via the internerd and the suburbs in that a fuckhead can be a jaded know-it-all without having left their environment of 'comfort'...The beatniks were inspired by leaving their fucking nest, the hipsters are inspired by living in it!

so lick my shite! :p
 
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