Lady Sovereign - the Grime test

The underground is always full of haters, that's why they're underground...

The paying of dues isn't in and of itself important (fuck, I live 3000 miles away, it doesn't really bother me), I just dislike the fact that (and this is more of a complaint against her record company than her, I guess) she is presented as some kind of central grime figure when people who are, in my opinion, far more talented than her have been slogging away for years with few results like this. I guess if I liked her records my opinion would be different.

Edit: I mean, fuck, consider Sharky Major. A lyrical genius, amazing flow and unsigned.

Red Rooster said:

I think that the only people who like sov don't really like her, but they've just been reading the press too closely.

It's more than a coincidence that this forum backs her (it's full of journalists and bloggers). When you read the more gritty forums she gets slated all the time (by the youth who are involved with grime).

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Eh, I'm in Paris, France, a country where Grime is still ignored (though I was quite surprised & happy to find and EVEN buy 'Run the Road' yesterday in some indie-mainstream record shop) ; I discovered Sov a few weeks ago, thanks to Matt's great Grime 04 comp. 'Ch-Ching' promptly catched my attention and then I managed to get info on the Lady, ordered white vinyl, etc.
I don't read the press too closely ; i'm not a journalist (though I do write a few reviews for a 'cultural' website, that makes me remember that I was one of the very few to talk about 'Boy in Da Corner' http://www.chronicart.com/music/music_hiphop.php3?id=8401), not a blogger (just an epiphanic 'poster').
I don't give a shit about the attitude of who or what, UnderGrime or Com-Grime, life in the blogosphere or in the mediasphere ; the thing is that her music gives me PLEASURE, and it's marking the 05 of my life.

stelfox said:

um ... some of us write the press you're talking about.... and bloody well, too. we're quite capable of making our own minds up and all this holier-than-thou, "she's not real", "not a good advertisement for grime" business is just sanctimonious rockist claptrap. besodes mate, when did you become anointed with the ability to make these pronouncements from on high? i couldn't give a flying fuck whether certain gatekeepers (or wannabe gatekeepers in your case) say she is "acceptable" or not. the simple fact is that she's made some cracking records that have worked on all levels...




i'm also bemused by your supposed love of "street" music, "grittiness", realness and your obvious distaste for working-class people, which makes me think you're approaching this from the perspective of dilettante and tourist.

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Yo don't get me wrong - you guys are writing great articles.

But Sov shouldn't be getting the inches she does - there are far more accomplished people in the grime scene to write about. They just don't have the backing of a great marketing team like sov does.

I have no distaste for working class people. I have a shitty job and live in a flat above a kebab shop in streatham. Harldy upper class myself am I.

stelfox said:

i'm also bemused by your supposed love of "street" music, "grittiness", realness and your obvious distaste for working-class people, which makes me think you're approaching this from the perspective of dilettante and tourist.

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yeah, and whats all this "chav" shite? i find that term highly offensive, seems to be an acceptable way to mock the poor these days.

sorry that shit really gets my back up...

Stelfox OTM here. Both about the chav thing (it's not just the upper classes who are snobbish cunts) and about the whole duespaying bullshit.

Maybe i've misused the word chav.

Red Rooster said:

Maybe i've misused the word chav.

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look, don't mean to gang up on you, its a term thats used widely these days unfortunately, perhaps without people thinking the implications through.

i'm sure you are sound as a person mate.

My post wasn't meant to be read as "you are a snobbish cunt", BTW. Which is obv. how it does read, so sorry...

As for the subject itself, I've only heard Cha Ching of Lady Sov's stuff, and I love it, but then I've always had a soft spot for bubblegum versions of genres that are quite selfconsciously tough (Louchie Lou and Michie One?)

rich girl is one of the best reggae records of all time

bassnation said:

look, don't mean to gang up on you, its a term thats used widely these days unfortunately, perhaps without people thinking the implications through.

i'm sure you are sound as a person mate.

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Respect - I never meant to make a point of her being working class at all. I probably shouldn't have used the term. I obviously don't understand it's full meaning!

Back to the subject...

I respect people's opinions on this forum - I haven't banished any of the opinions raised on this topic, I've merely added my own.

I think maybe I expressed my dislike for sov's music a bit strongly and this may have struck a few nerves of those people who have (probably) had the advantage of meeting her in person (be it for an interview or something).

It's just a real bee in my bonnet. I've always felt for people who work really hard to get to the top of their game - the whole sov situation is like the pop idol thing. Marketability has probably forseen real talent in my opinion here.

I just think it's bad she's being marketed as a kind of "Grime flagship artist". She's not earned the respect of the artists around her so it's obvious she'll not get their respect straight away.

It reminds me a bit of the time General Levy had a hit with Incredible, and then in a magazine was quoted saying he started the jungle movement. This caused a revolt in the Jungle circle and he was ousted. I even remember hearing that DJ Rap played the track not long after the incident, and because she publicly showed her support for Levy, she was not booked for any of the big events for over a year. (Not sure how much truth there is in that but I just remember hearing it somewhere).

hint said:

but...

let's face it... if any indie band came with that "lazy days / crazy ways" stuff, they'd get demolished, right?

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such as the killers, e.g

but sov is a good example of a chav...
not coz shes poor or anything but, plenty of rings, sovreings from elizabeth duke. some straight up and down market garms and a massive helpling of black and white wax on her head.

to be fair, if grime really does get some serious heat behind it, Sov will be a very faint blip on the radar of offensive 'fake' grime artists.

She will look like old school in 5 years.

She just happens to be the first 'accident' in the genre as a result of capitalism. Not that she isn't talented but i think there will be plenty more 'non-pirate' peeps in the very near future to bitch about.

egg said:

such as the killers, e.g

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you have a point, egg

good luck to her, I guess

Red Rooster said:

It reminds me a bit of the time General Levy had a hit with Incredible, and then in a magazine was quoted saying he started the jungle movement. This caused a revolt in the Jungle circle and he was ousted. I even remember hearing that DJ Rap played the track not long after the incident, and because she publicly showed her support for Levy, she was not booked for any of the big events for over a year. (Not sure how much truth there is in that but I just remember hearing it somewhere).

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well that's precisely what i was saying. this reminds me of the whole drum & bass council, saying what is real and what's not and who can be played and who can't. bloody nonsense as far as i'm concerned. the Levy thing was a total misquote as I seem to remember anyway, and Sov hasn't ever said she started grime, has she? All she's done is make records. Aligning her with Pop Idol stars is a but nuts - she simply pursued * A DIFFERENT ROUTE* and is on the wrong label (run by sort of trendy jazzboy Ross Allen) to be considered "part of the scene", she's not exactly pete waterman material. It's not even a very good dig at anyone nowadays, when you consider that being a reality TV construct didn't stop Girls Aloud being the most thrilling pop group of the past few years.

top thread! nice 1 logan!

outraygeous said:

but sov is a good example of a chav...
not coz shes poor or anything but, plenty of rings, sovreings from elizabeth duke. some straight up and down market garms and a massive helpling of black and white wax on her head.

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its still offensive and patronising. i don't have time for people who like to mock the poor sorry mate.

in fact, the whole old skool rave thing was about as "chav" as it gets, and theres plenty of people from more priveledged backgrounds wanking on about how avant garde it was.

Yeah, the whole "you don't really like the music, you're just following what the press tells you" line is soooo over-familiar and lazy - on the level with claims that people "pretend" to like any music because it's "trendy". Minus points also for the "you are bloggers/journalists therefore your opinion is less invalid" line, and the use of the word "chav". And this whole work ethic fixation is quite bizarre - apart from the fact that I don't think it's at all "obvious" that Lady Sovereign hasn't "worked" to get where she is, how does this affect the music?