Lady Sovereign - the Grime test
- Thread starter Melchior
- Start date
stevienixed
i suffer rock
Pearsall said:
Wouldn't it be because labels aren't really concerned with who's *best*. Their main concern is making a profit.
3underscore
Well-known member
This thread seems to be moving pretty fast, and I would like to get my thoughts in. Having put Sov on live, over the past few weeks I have begun to think of the matter of whether she is actually grime. I like her work, I think she spits well, I think she copes very well with the backlash that she gets all the time cos she got signed. But more and more I am thinking she is a lot more to the garage side of things than Grime. I am just reading that off the basslines that she is using – not that she is working with Medacyn and Skinner and others. No bad thing, but grime as I like it, and especially dub-step, has a dark tone to it that Sov doesn’t carry. I am uncertain as to the significance this holds in the matter – just considering that whether the press isn’t the issue, and more that the grime sound is so evolving that to have one face in the press under the banner, some people feel hurt or misrepresented.
All the same, If this thread isn’t evidence of the “she has got an advance, so we don’t like her” process then very little is – the same way that any underground scene has ever worked when someone gets signed. What major is going to really stick its neck out rather than sign someone commercially viable FFS? If you think they should get the big distribution rather than another, do it yourself, or remain quiet. Island have moved on the basis of an artist with a sound they can sell enough to make their money on. The early Sov pressings have been in the thousands and selling out, whereas most grime pressings are more like 500. It isn’t a difficult one to work out. I love the Tempa stuff as much as anyone, but a major isn’t going to think like me. Good luck to her – I reckon she’ll do very well, and deserves it.
All the same, If this thread isn’t evidence of the “she has got an advance, so we don’t like her” process then very little is – the same way that any underground scene has ever worked when someone gets signed. What major is going to really stick its neck out rather than sign someone commercially viable FFS? If you think they should get the big distribution rather than another, do it yourself, or remain quiet. Island have moved on the basis of an artist with a sound they can sell enough to make their money on. The early Sov pressings have been in the thousands and selling out, whereas most grime pressings are more like 500. It isn’t a difficult one to work out. I love the Tempa stuff as much as anyone, but a major isn’t going to think like me. Good luck to her – I reckon she’ll do very well, and deserves it.
amen to that and i don't necessarily think of her as grime per se (especially when you know who she's working with etc), but she's defintely part of the continuum, just as some of the social circles stuff (Donae'O's Bounce, Farmer Yardy etc) was always a bit of a joker in early grime's pack. the thing that makes me laugh is that all this hate is simply as you say coz she got signed - if she was struggling on the pirates, doing it the way we're told she "should", i bet people's opinions would be really really different - ie they're not based on skill, they're based on where she's come up from and how she's supposed to have done it. anyway, ferfuckssake she got signed to casual records - no one is buying diamond-encrusted hummers and second homes in florida from that!
3underscore
Well-known member
I think the biting is more that she has signed to Island. She had an agreement with Casual for four twelves, "Random" is the fourth. Then she is Island's.
Ok so Sov jumped on the scene and is now getting some serious exposure. Her main crime is that she didn’t have to graft to get there and there are more deserving artists than her about. All probably true, except that it’s not really her fault – most in the scene would take her place, avoid all the work and cut straight into deal to put them on the main stage. And from the poster earlier who wrote about her manipulating web forums to raise her profile – that sounds like hard graft to me. She simply found a way to raise her profile through the back door and it worked. And let’s be honest how many female mcs are making it through the established route of working the pirates through crews – none….where is fury these days?
So on the one side you have the male-dominated grassroots – while at the other, the mainstream, you have an industry that has developed a very tentative relationship with urban underground music (partly due to getting fingers burned before and partly due to ignorance and stereotyping about the individuals involved in the scene), which means that the very few female artists are more likely to get a look in than the many male ones.
So on the one side you have the male-dominated grassroots – while at the other, the mainstream, you have an industry that has developed a very tentative relationship with urban underground music (partly due to getting fingers burned before and partly due to ignorance and stereotyping about the individuals involved in the scene), which means that the very few female artists are more likely to get a look in than the many male ones.
stevienixed said:
True, but I'm a music fan, not a record company. Surely I am within my rights to think other people are more deserving of attention and possible success?
stelfox said:
I can't speak for other people, my only problem (well, beyond the fact that I think her tunes are no good) is that she is being presented as a key figure, and she is being really pushed by music journalists as the next big thing, when I personally think there are people who are far more deserving of the possible success that might come her way as a result of the hype. That's all.
I'm not telling you what to write about or what to like, just my preferences.
nomos
Administrator
Exactly, even though Chantelle Fiddy's got a long list of worthy candidates over at her blog. It's not surprising that female MCs are finding and taking alternate routes given that this scene is mainly comprised of a few closed and perpetually warring boys' clubs. It's a hyper macho environment and it's made even less welcoming to women through the constant guns-n-gash talk. I mean, I think it's telling that Sov came to prominence through a track in which she was called a bitch. I don't blame her in the least for exploiting the opportunities that came her way. She's talented and she's getting a chance to do something about it. If the scene gets pissed off about it, then the scene can think a little bit about why things worked out that way.bun-u said:
On the the subject of using her looks to her advantage - It's pretty obvious on first going to her website that this is part of the marketing plan. I think this is a problem but you also have to look at why its happening. It's not unlike DJ Rap and a slew of other female artists in just about every genre and scene whose appearance is far more hyped/scrutinized than their male counterparts. They're damned if they're cute ("she just made it because of her looks"), and damned if they don't meet the imposed standard. Either they have more trouble breaking in, or they have their appearance publicly mocked. Either way, female artists are constantly being dismissed on the basis of their looks. You don't, for example, hear people seriously suggesting that Kano's getting big through his looks.
Finally, on the whole, I think grime would do well to stay away from those tropes of authenticity and 'keeping it real' that have been so detrimental to hip hop, jungle, punk, etc. It's a dead end argument typically invoked as a way to impede change and inclusionism.
bun-u said:
i think she was picked up and developed by the producer medasyn rather than jumping on the scene.
people think some funny things about the way indies work, she is probably on casual cos medasyn is mates with ross allen and so it happened. The buying public often commit to these genre rules and gameplans for the genres involved in alot of cases, making decisions on behalf of the artists and genres, deciding who is real or not thru their actions, often due to strange well trodden motivations, missing out on some great music because of perpetuated nonsense.
Personally i like chi ching and that diss of jentia she did. Good records. She gets more press because she has better pr than kids on white labels . She's a funny white girl and this makes her stand out for casual listeners like those people who decide what to put in their mags each month.
those are shallow reasons for putting someone in your mag but magazines are often pretty shallow, they have to stick together a load of really hip new things every month and make people buy their product which probably is just keeping its head above water anyway.
people who believe that someone has to come "from the scene" while complaining that big record companies care more about profit thatn talent seem to believe that these underground scenes are little proletarian communes where only hard work counts. that's a bit delusional. true, you need to work hard if there is not much money to be made, but otherwise there is too much politics within every underground scene (examples with general levy and dj rap are good and i think they tried the same thing with shy fx, actually), you will hear a lot of people complaining how it is all about who you know and not what you know and they are not saying this just because they believe they are being overlooked - sometimes they are being overlooked by the scene, just as some people are being overlooked by the record industry. people are not necessarily being motivated by profit either - prejudices and various preferences play an important role both in the underground and in the mainstream.
you can critise lady sovereign if you think her music isn't good, but complaining about her not coming through the scene is a bit silly. the scene does not need to care about her anyway.
for the record, i think she's ok, and i know quite a few people who like her music. and no, they were not influenced by the press or anything similar.
you can critise lady sovereign if you think her music isn't good, but complaining about her not coming through the scene is a bit silly. the scene does not need to care about her anyway.
for the record, i think she's ok, and i know quite a few people who like her music. and no, they were not influenced by the press or anything similar.
Poet for Hire
Well-known member
autonomicforthepeople said:
Logan is going to need a personality transplant then.
blissblogger
Well-known member
got by through looks?!?!
she's hardly comparable to former page 3 girl Rap
she looks about 12, like some schoolgirl putting on loads of makeup (gruesome eye shadow!) and trying to seem older than she is, with the barely sexually differentiated figure of someone who subsists on crisps and Diet Coke
in that sense she looks totally grime
it's all about the alleged 3 million deal isn't it, green eyes on the scene, those figures are always bollocks, what they refer to is deals potentially worth 3 million (over the course of 8 albums or something, sliding advances that go up the longer you're with the company), i'd be surprised if she's got more than 30 grand upfront.
she's hardly comparable to former page 3 girl Rap
she looks about 12, like some schoolgirl putting on loads of makeup (gruesome eye shadow!) and trying to seem older than she is, with the barely sexually differentiated figure of someone who subsists on crisps and Diet Coke
in that sense she looks totally grime
it's all about the alleged 3 million deal isn't it, green eyes on the scene, those figures are always bollocks, what they refer to is deals potentially worth 3 million (over the course of 8 albums or something, sliding advances that go up the longer you're with the company), i'd be surprised if she's got more than 30 grand upfront.
I think one of the underlying assumptions here is that it's somehow part of *what grime is* to be a very confusing, abrasive listening experience which will make the vast majority of people turn off their radios in disgust. As soon as an artist comes along who ignores this criterion and makes music that more people might actually *want* to listen to, people think she's fake/talentless.
blissblogger
Well-known member
Ned said:
there's always been a quirky, comic and/or genial current within grime -- "pies" an obvious example, but going back earlier to tracks by heartless crew and genius cru -- there should be more of this playful light hearted stuff ESPECIALLY if people are wanting to challenge stereotypes about street/gangsta/ghetto/badboy
(which stereotypes, of course, don't exactly spring out of thin air)
bring on the gimmicky tracks, the comedy grime, the Madness-y stuff
humour's always been a big part of the hardcore continuum
FACT: "Bound 4 the Reload," a supposed novelty tune, is a foundational track, as much as "Dilemma"
outraygeous
Well-known member
bassnation said:
well, i wonder if its ok to mock the poor, if you actually are poor.
i would prolly say im on an even par or wealth/poverty scale as sov, yet i dont choose to look, sound or behave the way she does.
im not patronising the poor, im just bluntly grouping her into something. chav seems to be the best and closest group.
anyway, back to sov
yeah shes big.. bare talent.