Lady Sovereign - the Grime test

Melchior

Taking History Too Far
In the Pitchfork thread, no less an authority than Mr. Sama said the following.

Logan Sama said:
I like Lady Sovereign.

She is like the secret entrance exam for anyone who wants to like Grime. If they like her, they don't get it.

She's a nice way of weeding out the fashion followers.

Now I like Lady Sov, not as a poseur test, but becasue I like her voice and her cheekieness.

I'm just a casual follower of grime, and I know she didn't ome up through the pirate scene, but this seems a little harsh to me.

So what do all of you lot think? Does liking Sov make one a pretender?
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
lol

You are taking an off the cuff remark to be a law sent down on an acetate tablet from Mount Music House.

I have no problem with people finding her "cheeky" or "entertaining", because that is exactly what she is. But when she is getting the same sort of rave reviews that someone of the talent of Kano is getting, that is when I have a problem.

If Lady Sovereign gets more people listening to grime as a product of her name-checking her favourites and inspirations, then fairplay to her. If she puts people off listening to grime because she's a novelty act and people get sick of her, then it would be to the detriment of the music.

I just can't listen to her for more than 2 seconds without wanting to reach for the power switch.

But that's just me.
 

Melchior

Taking History Too Far
Logan Sama said:
You are taking an off the cuff remark to be a law sent down on an acetate tablet from Mount Music House.

Nah man, I'm taking it as an off the cuff remark. It's all good. But I was wondering what other people thought of her mostly.
 

Red Rooster

Well-known member
I'm fairly new to grime but even I can understand where Logan comes from.

My first grime experience came thru hearing Plasticman. (After hearing Dizzee of course) Although I never realised there was a whole scene of the stuff.

I've been avidly listening to Rinse FM for the last 2 months or so and I really like it.

However, If I was played a Lady Sov track before I had heard Plasticman + the Rinse Crew (Logan included) I think I would have ignored grime full stop.

I find Lady Sov really cringe worthy - that Random video on Channel U is sheer comedy genius for all the wrong reasons.

It surprises me the amount of press she is getting - especially as the whole hype around her seems to have been generated around the press cuttings themselves rather than actual street credibility.
 

Pearsall

Prodigal Son
The thing I find weird is that like two years ago she was posting all the time on UKGarageWorldwide (yes, I might as well out myself as a long-term lurker on UKG forums), posting crappy quality audio clips of her crew (HL Family or something like that?) and getting lots of attention on that particular internet forum (arguments, 'Sov is well buff/Sov is butters' threads, 'listen to my audio' all that sort of stuff), but nowhere else. Then, whammo, suddenly she's in the press as being like some kind of emblematic grime figure. How did this happen? She didn't even really do the pirates or the long-term slog up the ladder did she? Did someone just decide they like the look of her and that she could be a marketable quantity? Inquiring minds (well, me) want to know, because to be honest the appeal escapes me.
 

egg

Dumpy's Rusty Nut
Pearsall said:
She didn't even really do the pirates or the long-term slog up the ladder did she?
Dues paying is overrrated

Logan Sama said:
I like Lady Sovereign.

She is like the secret entrance exam for anyone who wants to like Grime. If they like her, they don't get it.

She's a nice way of weeding out the fashion followers.

I am a fashion follower! :D
 

Flyboy

Member
Okay, let me see if I’ve got this straight. So far, what are the criticisms of Lady Sovereign that are being put forward, other than a basic “don’t like the way her stuff sounds”?

- She’s okay as (mere) “entertainment” but doesn’t have the (serious, artistic) “talent” of another (coincidentally male) artist.
- She’s a “novelty” act (because humour has no place in music?).
- She hasn’t come up through the right route – ie, hasn’t done the necessary work (lacks the protestant work ethic!), doesn’t come from the right place (lacks authenticity!).
- She’s only enjoying her current success because of the way she looks and the machinations of marketing men (as has been said about every female pop artist since ever).

I’ll happily admit that I don’t know a huge amount about grime, especially compared to some people here, but I think I recognise the above – isn’t this what some people used to/still call ‘rockism’? I’ve never found that term ideal, but it’s as good a term as any to describe a certain set of recurring values that tend to frame some people’s dislike of artists who have any kind of pop element to their music.

If what was being said was “people who ONLY like Lady Sovereign but not Kano or No Lay or whoever, don’t get it”, that would be one thing, but as far as I can tell, the implicit idea is if you like Sov at all, that means you don’t have a clue, even if you like a whole bunch of other people.
 

Keith P

draw for the drumstick
The thing I find weird is that like two years ago she was posting all the time on UKGarageWorldwide (yes, I might as well out myself as a long-term lurker on UKG forums), posting crappy quality audio clips of her crew (HL Family or something like that?) and getting lots of attention on that particular internet forum (arguments, 'Sov is well buff/Sov is butters' threads, 'listen to my audio' all that sort of stuff), but nowhere else. Then, whammo, suddenly she's in the press as being like some kind of emblematic grime figure. How did this happen? She didn't even really do the pirates or the long-term slog up the ladder did she? Did someone just decide they like the look of her and that she could be a marketable quantity? Inquiring minds (well, me) want to know, because to be honest the appeal escapes me.

Yeh I remember that as well.
 

stelfox

Beast of Burden
Oh, come off it. Yeah, she is funny and entertaining, but she *can* spit. There is absolutely nothing wrong with her. And as for being a "novelty act", she's hardly the fucking Cheeky Girls now, is she?
This is like saying Elephant Man isn't dancehall because he makes comedy tunes.
Logan, I totally admire your trenchancy, your knowledge of grime and the fact that you like to stir shit up, but you really aren't right here.
Personally I couldn't care less about "realness" (that whole standpoint is just pissy drum & bass council-style scene guardianship to me) and I don't find her attractive, either; I just think she's good. Not as good as Riko, who is my unabashed grime hero, but she pisses all over the likes of Shystie and made it into my top 10 singles of the year with a bullet - and i totally stand by that.
I'm really not a fashion person. Several people here can testify that I usually look like shit and I don't like MIA.
 

stevienixed

i suffer rock
Melchior said:
In the Pitchfork thread, no less an authority than Mr. Sama said the following.



Now I like Lady Sov, not as a poseur test, but becasue I like her voice and her cheekieness.

I'm just a casual follower of grime, and I know she didn't ome up through the pirate scene, but this seems a little harsh to me.

So what do all of you lot think? Does liking Sov make one a pretender?

I rrrrrrreally love Lady Sov. As much as I like Shystie, I thought her record was a letdown. So yes, I guess her latest single, Random, is very *accessible* and will probably/hopefully do well with the *general public*. The fact remains she's good. I love how people *blame* her looks for all the media attention. :rolleyes:

"on that particular internet forum (arguments, 'Sov is well buff/Sov is butters' threads, 'listen to my audio' all that sort of stuff), but nowhere else."

Oh no, you missed her posts on the Knitting Message Board. ;-)

I am happy I failed the Grime test.
 

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
Thing about Lady Sovereign vs most Grime, is that Lady Sovereign is actually good.

Y'know, makes records you can actually listen to, dance to even, instead of all the juvenile testosterone wank that has always bedevilled Grime.

Dunno whether I'm into fashion -- doubt it cos I don't know what's hot. But I look great.
 

DJL

i'm joking
Sov is big. She is very attractive, undoubtedly talented and has star quality.
The same reason people hate on Dizzee is why they hate on her IMO.
 

Flyboy

Member
I don't think setting up a dichotomy between Lady Sovereign and "juvenile testosterone wank" does her any favours either. If she DOES becomes an artist who's liked by people who don't like any other grime (and maybe it's happening already), it won't necessarily detract from the quality of her music, but it will irritate the fuck out of a lot of people, including me.
 

Red Rooster

Well-known member
How can anyone look at her face and listen to that Jafaken accent at the same time?

I'm not hating on her at all. I just really feel for the people in grime who are better than her, trying to graft their way through and she's obviously just done nothing to get where she is.

She's not a good advertisement for grime.

Normally the serious artists come thru first (Dizzee, Kano, Wiley, Roll Deep etc.) and then artists like sov emerge as the scene is dying when the major labels are trying desperately to squeeze the last pennies out of the sound.

I would bet a large portion of my entire life earnings that her album (if ever released) will flop and we'll never see her chav face on telly again.
 

Red Rooster

Well-known member
I think that the only people who like sov don't really like her, but they've just been reading the press too closely.

It's more than a coincidence that this forum backs her (it's full of journalists and bloggers). When you read the more gritty forums she gets slated all the time (by the youth who are involved with grime).
 

hint

party record with a siren
I think she's welcome to any success that comes her way - I'm certainly not bothered about any dues or things like that and I'm not a mover and shaker in the scene, so it's not really my place to proclaim what's good or bad for grime.

but...

let's face it... if any indie band came with that "lazy days / crazy ways" stuff, they'd get demolished, right? :rolleyes:
 

outraygeous

Well-known member
this is where grime cracks me up.. people are like sov is good. shes from my ends and in my area, pre getting signed.. she was no one.

now she has a deal and some big marketing drive is pushing her in the right direction. for grime, this may be a good thing, but personally, i think its embaressing. theres already a problem with not many people in the public eye represent grime and all of a sudden, youve got some ghetto chick almost being an ambasodor for the sound!

to me, thats swag...

i big her up for gettin signed and all that lark but... the amount of disturbance she causes on the net is amazing. im even replying 2 this thread myself about her!
 

stelfox

Beast of Burden
Red Rooster said:
I think that the only people who like sov don't really like her, but they've just been reading the press too closely.

It's more than a coincidence that this forum backs her (it's full of journalists and bloggers). When you read the more gritty forums she gets slated all the time.

um ... some of us write the press you're talking about.... and bloody well, too. we're quite capable of making our own minds up and all this holier-than-thou, "she's not real", "not a good advertisement for grime" business is just sanctimonious rockist claptrap.
besides mate, when did you become ordained to make these pronouncements from on high, and by whom? i couldn't give a flying fuck whether certain gatekeepers (or wannabe gatekeepers in your case) say she is "acceptable" or not.
the simple fact is that she's made some cracking records that have worked on all levels and that i've really enjoyed.
so the most important question is (at the risk of coming over all village voice/seattle weekly) does it really *MATTER* that she's not "authentic" - read as followed the exact same route as diz, wiley, kano, jookie, lethal b, whothefuckeverelseyouwannaname, when the music is good?


Red Rooster said:
I would bet a large portion of my entire life earnings that her album (if ever released) will flop and we'll never see her chav face on telly again.

i'm also bemused by your supposed love of "street" music, "grittiness", realness and your obvious distaste for working-class people - makes me think *you're* approaching this from the perspective of dilettante and tourist if anyone is (not that that's, in and of itself, even a bad thing).
 
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