Block the bid

ambrose

Well-known member
never thought i'd agree with a k-punk, but yeah fuck the olympics. to me, building a vast swimming pool in stratford isnt gonna help anyone anytime soon.
as for transport improvements, well that would be a additional benefit, but it surely cant jusitify the games? otherwise er....why not just spend the money on transport. oh yeah shit cos you have a big song and dance about and crow to the rest of the world how important you are cos you finally made a slight improvemtn to a shoddy metropolitan transport system.

fuck the olympics. i ended up in trafalgar square at some unfortunate cultural vent hijacked by "back the bid", all the people who came up to me with stcikers etc were like "will you back the bid?"

when i said "no" they looked a bit upset, i was a bit rude
 

Jamie S

Member
Me, I hate the Olympics. I think it's a 4 yearly excuse for people who excel at doing things none of the rest of us care about to get a bit of limelight. All the proper sports either aren't there or have a rubbish Under 23 tournament or whatever. And athletics is just boring.

However, I think it would be good for them to come to London. As the article k-punk linked too pointed out, the lower lea valley is going to get developed anyway and you bet that if it's not restrained by at least the semblance of being 'sustainable' to impress the IOC, it''ll be a lot worse. Also, it's all very well saying 'Why do you have to have the Olympics to improve the transport system? Just do it anyway.' but it doesn't work like that. Any kind of huge infrastructure projects need levers to make them happen. Plus I like new shiny things.

I go for a bike ride along the Lea Valley quite a lot and the marshes and that round there are great. Really interesting atmosphere, but that bit is between Tottenham and Walthamstow and they're not doing anything up there, are they? Also, somewhere like Green Park or Regent's Park is a pretty inspiring place to have in a city the size of London, so what would be wrong with a new formal park to go along with the wilder marshes a bit further north. As long as people have access.

On the regeneration front. I'm sure local people will get screwed, but there will be jobs and cheap-ish houses for some people. (My wife works for the neigbourhood renewal unit, though and she is 100% against it, though.)
 

henrymiller

Well-known member
i met one person who works with refugees in the area, she said there was a basically pro feeling there cos of the jobs and possibilities for housing. of course there's the danger of it going bethnal green, but there's no political alternative on the horizon that's going to do the infrastructure without the olympics.
 

ambrose

Well-known member
i was talking about using the improvements to transport as a philosophical justification for the olympics, not as a practical one. obviously, if crossrail gets built cos of it, then thats good, but i dont think that justifies it as a sort of moral decision
 

Wrong

Well-known member
henrymiller said:
adoring the logic of supporting paris over london on the issue of planification/regeneration/redevelopment. thank god the parisian authorities never tried to pull that kind of stunt!

Think global, act local. As part of opposing the bid, we should be opposing the Olympics entirely as the spectacle of multinational capitalism it has become.
 

luka

Well-known member
jobs will actually be lost if we get the games. the jobs created will be short term jobs. the jobs lost will be long term jobs.
incidentlly the sewerbanks/greenway is being lost to crossrail. check the notices all along it.
 

satanmcnugget

Well-known member
i think it was the Rambler who said that the Montreal Olympics were marred by "mistakes"....however, i think what has to be realized is that all these so-called mistakes were just clever ways for the elites who benefitted from all those development deals to foist the costs onto the tax-payer...another form of corporate/elite welfare

and while i dont have any stats in front of me, i think i recall reading that almost every city that has hosted the Olympics has come out on the wrong end in recent years...cld be wrong on that, tho, i confess
 

mms

sometimes
course the 13 companies who are backing the bid to the Olympic assessors are the ones who are most likely to get contracts for the work involved in it, ie property firms, lawyers, pr companies and ncp.
plus edf energy (electicite de france) who are also backing Paris.
 

henrymiller

Well-known member
from today's Guardian, diary section:

"Surveillance (1): French TV and New York radio crews, last Sunday, being led through Hackney Marshes by anti-Olympic bid activists on a recce we imagine differed slightly from that taken by the IOC a fortnight ago. The sights included fridge mountains, rubbish-strewn paths and contaminated land, with the guides' commentary centring on the importance of preserving such a unique environment. If any Guardian readers participated - and something tells us there'll have been one or two - they are cordially invited to expose any logic in this argument."
 

k-punk

Spectres of Mark
The coverage of the Paris bid reveals the way in which the IOC function politically as big Other... ooh, look, industrial action, this might damage their bid... as if (1) getting the Olympics was of such transcendent importance that it dwarfs issues of social justice, pay, conditions etc and (2) the IOC is an inviolate, incorruptible and neutral body.
 

don_quixote

Trent End
the idea that london needs regenerating is one of the most illogical things ive ever heard.

and i cant understand why anyone needs an olympics to have an excuse to build sporting facilities. time and again in sports pages (usually when henman loses at wimbledon) about how much the french and australians spend on sport per head compared to how much the british government does... perhaps if the british government spent the money they spent on pr for schemes (world cup '06, olympics '12) then there'd be no need to moan.

genuinely, what's wrong with building an suitable infrastructure for sport BEFORE bidding for an olympics?

dont see the problem with lumbering olympics on other countries to be honest, a 80000-seater athletics stadium here isnt truly financially viable because the football fans think they're too far away from the pitch and there's no atmosphere.

if we want to have an olympics at all i dont see why we have to go for london opposed to a big city that genuinely needs regenerating (see birmingham). oh hold on, yeah, um, that's a bit far for the media/politicians to travel really and the big london companies wont put cash into it because their corporate seats are too far away /o\
 

luka

Well-known member
the following is an edit of an article from www.nolondon2012.org

Olympics and the Bow Backs: Direct local environmental impacts
The Olympic zone incorporates the Bow Back Rivers. These comprise the Old River Lea, Waterworks River, City Mill River, Pudding Mill River and Bow Back River.


The waterways flow through an area typified by dereliction, mainly old factories and vacant land. The neglect of the area has, however, been extremely beneficial in terms of wildlife. Natural colonisation by a large variety of native and exotic species supplemented, in places, by tree and shrub planting (the bulk being the work of volunteers), has provided the area with a green 'backdrop' where, in places, it is hard to believe you are in London. The limited amount of vegetation management has resulted in the habitats having a 'wild' feel, as opposed to the frequently cut towpaths of the nearby canal system, where few species get a chance to flower.


Disuse and neglect has also benefited wildlife, and species that are frequently seen in the area are kingfisher, heron, coot, moorhen, mallard, mute swan, green woodpecker, grey wagtail, great-crested and little grebes, dunnock, tits and kestrel, as well as the summer visiting sand martins. Small mammals are frequent in the rough grasslands, as evidenced by hovering kestrels, and there is a rich invertebrate population , which includes a number of notable and rare species. The Olympic proposals will destroy all the existing habitat and thus the associated wildlife. Proposals to provide mitigation in terms of translocating species and providing alternative habitat are unlikely to be successful, and it is only legally protected species that will be the focus of such work.


A new 'park' is promised post Olympics, providing a greater amount of open space than now exists. This park will not be created until 2020 (8 years after the games), and meanwhile public amenity of the area will be lost. There are, as yet, no financial arrangements for the management of a new park, and no organisation has claimed they want to run it. By 2020, will anyone remember a park was promised?
Claims that these will be a 'green' Olympics are related to recycling, energy generation and use, i.e. green technology, in terms of the environment, they are anything but green. For an area typified as brownfield, apart from the waterways, there are over 500 mature trees in the area - all are to be felled.
The river system of the Lower Lea is, according to the Environment Agency, extremely complex and is very important in terms of its flood relief function. The network of channels and their associated wildlife is probably unique in London.


Over the years, the Lower Lea Project/Lea Rivers Trust, have carried out improvements along the waterways, which has involved planting, vegetation management and habitat creation, as well as clean-ups. It has also run an education programme and organised walks which has introduced thousands of children and adults to the waterways.


The olympic proposals will involve the complete relandscaping of the area, and include lowering towpaths and the creation of land bridges, all intended to get people onto the site quickly. The effect of the number and size of bridges will be to virtually culvert the waterways. The shading effect of bridges means that nothing grows below them, either on land or in the water. The network of waterways will effectively be fragmented and their 'habit corridor' (i.e. continuity) function lost. Proposals to landscaping the bridges is, not only problematic, but does not replace the river environment. Apart from their effect on habitat and wildlife, the bridges will destroy the attractiveness of the towpaths for walking or cycling. Post Olympics, many of the bridges will remain as 'legacy.


The Olympic stadium will rise to 50 metres and its shading effect on the surrounding land and waterways will be significant.


A benefit of a successful bid, it is claimed, will be the removal of invasive species from the waterways and the clean-up of the River Lea (doubtful, given that they are not looking at Deephams because it is outside the Olympic zone). Apart from that, it is Thames Waters' responsibility. It has also been said (by Ken himself) that if the bid is not successful, the regeneration of the Lower Lea will not be of as high a quality! Does that mean the Lower Lea was going to get low quality regeneration ? because an Area Development Framework was being developed before the bid was an option.
 

don_quixote

Trent End
it's started

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sufi

lala
how has training & employing local people gone? that was one of their equalities promises, i'd like to see stats 5 years in - they seem to be going for volunteers at the mo, rather than doing anything about regenerating east end folk
 
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