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Thread: can't believe how bad the Libertines are

  1. #31
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    > for dads who buy 3 records a year.

    the 40-50 year segment is the age bracket spending the most on music
    - even more than teenagers (for the first time in history).

    I hate the whole lot of these new touchie-feelie-guitar bands (from Codplay to Slow Patrol),
    I guess it's the same lot who likes U2 and REM who are into these?
    Ie old "indie"-kids and new ones? And that scaringly seems to be a hell of big market ...

    I would not put Franz Ferdindand, The Bravery etc in with the above lot.
    They might come from post-punk (Coldplay etc clearly does not) - but not the postpunk of
    of Gang of Four, Wire, Joy Division, but rather Teardrop Explodes, Echo and the Bunnymen
    and even a band like Martha&the Muffins.

    And while I am it: Interpol - not the new Joy Division, but if they are the new anything
    it's the new Psychedelic Furs.

    I see K-Punk hate FF - I have my "suspicions" about all these new "clever" bands
    - but I find myself liking some of them.

    If nothing else because there is some traction (as mentioned, good expression) and
    crucially because I liked the Teardrop Explodes and mid-period Blondie the first time
    around ... I haven't finished listening to Bloc Party's album yet - but on first hearing it
    does not really deliver ...

    I think we have to wait a very long time before we get anything like
    Joy Division, Television or early Ultravox! (or say Young Marble Giants/Wire).

    ---

    tangent (parental advisory - it mentions the unmentionables: prog-rock, country and white blues)

    I read K-punk's top-100+ list the other day:
    if I was to list the top 100 British albums, then "Jesus of Cool"/Nick Lowe would easily be in the
    top-50 ... not to mention the odd prog-rock album (say "Red"/King Crimson and "Green"/Steve Hillage to sort of theme it).

    But bless Mark for having Virginia Astley's wonderful "From Gardens Where We Feel Secure" in there.

    I guess the advantage of living in remote part of Europe is that we didn't know
    what we were "supposed" to listen to
    - even if we saw ourselves as "punks" in the late '70s we would
    listen to _anything_. That included Krautrock, Prog, Pop and *cough* even disco.

    And pure crap from the continent like Focus (discarded, but I would still try it).

    When I speak to British friends who were punks in the '70s there seem to be an
    intense dislike to _anything_ prog (prog seems to always mean ELP and Yes etc ) and that the only reason they ever listened to Kraut was that Julian Cope (?) wrote a book about it.

    I am generalising here of course (and I know for a fact that several member of Diss does not fall
    into this category) - but it seems like the "musical borders" are/were much harder in the UK than in Scandinavia.

    Cases in point: I ventured into those two small record shops in West Croydon the other
    week and was stunned when the first one said he "really didn't do grime"? The sign on the outside
    says "Garage" though. The second shop had plenty of white label 12"s (I picked up two - at
    8 quid a pop it's bloody expensive ... at least compared to Aim High and Run the Road).

    Back home you will have Deathprod working with modern jazzers like Jaga Jazzist,
    electronic genius Biosphere and modern-prog rockers Motorpsycho (who plays C&w in their
    spare time). And Ralph Myerz Band wearing Death-metal T-shirts ...

    Although Brits are extremely open minded it does not seem to last?

    If I mention country ("those first two Lyle Lovett albums were rather good")
    to anyone they will just laugh hollowly or mention that they listen
    to Johnny Cash (but only after those late "trendy" albums ...).
    Oh well. We are all different ...

    Some people get touched by U2 and Coldplay and even Snow Patrol -
    some of us does not.

    (I'll write a long piece of why Johnny Winter's "Fast Life Rider" matters sometime.
    Bless Hendrix, but as Mr Strong mentions in his big discography bible thingie -
    Winter was probably the most talented of all those white guys trying to play the
    blues (and that includes Clapton/Beck). I know shit all about how good guitarists are "technically" -
    seeing Bill Nelson last year I was horrified by this guy behind me going on for minutes on
    "is he as fast/good as Eddie Van Halen?" - who fekken cares?)

    ---

    Ahh - The Libertines. Overrated in deed.

    Ay-man. Dissensus-vortex sucking me in again ... Apologies if you made it this far ...
    Last edited by Ness Rowlah; 20-02-2005 at 01:59 AM. Reason: order, order
    Ness Rowlah

  2. #32

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    I like him and them, mainly for the fact they don't give a fuck and the kids love them you old farts

    I hope he turns it around, some of the stuff is very good and I'd share a pint with him...

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Dust
    I like him and them, mainly for the fact they don't give a fuck and the kids love them you old farts
    You're winding us up! Old farts indeed ...

    But the Libertines are just SO empty...

    ... I'm actually beginning to quite like Franz Ferdinand though. All their songs are flawed but the good bits of say take me out are, well, good. Best of all they can actually say something in interviews -- they rocked on radio four .
    paul.meme
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2stepfan
    I'm always happy to reveal a liking for popular / unpopular / take-yer-pick music -- I mean I like and have bought records by Coldplay for example, which puts me some way beyond the pale of most Dissenssians --
    paul you uber-trendy. any fule kno that coldplay are an insiders tip. same with you and your ruddy hartfloor thing innit.


  5. #35
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    pop-Indie is properly growing on me these days, after years of steadfast refusal. It's impossible to hate that Modest Mouse song, and Willy Mason is kind of good too. Also, the out hud album is excellent, on first listen. Dunno, life in that old corpse yet, although maybe only in the US...

  6. #36
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    [QUOTE]and i refuse to believe that ANYONE really likes stuff like athlete or snow patrol. people who think they like them don't really know what liking a band means.[/QUOTE

    this second sentence is as rockist as can be: of course people like this music. obv people over a certain age don't because they've heard go4, and they know all about john lydon's ground-breaking new musik capital radio appearance 'can 68 suicide 74 i was there' yada-blah ain't lcd grand. but people who are, say, 17-18, or younger, don't know this stuff, and they connect with the music. sure the nme is telling them to, a bit, but that was true of the penmaniacs and morleyites and their fave bands 20 years ago. ver kidz aren't any more or less gullible now than then (though there are fewer of them, perhaps). you can argue the toss over modernism and be proved 'right' but you can't argue that the fans don't like what they like.

  7. #37

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    Wasn't post-punk all a bit over-rated? Most of those bands who sounded good in '79 ended up getting stupid haircuts and trousers, and spent the early-80s producing absolute tosh (esp. PiL, Go4, Scritti, etc). As for the Banshees, let's be honest, apart from Hong Kong Garden and Voices (which are brilliant), they were fucking abysmal, music for Hampstead mums to take hot baths to. I actually find Muse and Keane painful to listen to, their music's like being urinated on by a furvert, it just goes on and on til the saccharine clogs up your brain stalks. It's then that I realise how amazing Lady Sovereign truly is.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin
    I actually find Muse and Keane painful to listen to, their music's like being urinated on by a furvert, it just goes on and on til the saccharine clogs up your brain stalks. It's then that I realise how amazing Lady Sovereign truly is.
    "Cocaine is one helluva drug......"

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin
    As for the Banshees, let's be honest, apart from Hong Kong Garden and Voices (which are brilliant), they were fucking abysmal,
    Monitor, Metal postcard, Spellbound, loads more...
    paul.meme
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  10. #40

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    You know the funny thing, the other week watching the Brits, Siouxsie looked EXACTLY like my English teacher from school. I don't mean she resembled her a bit, or they were similar. They were identical - right down to the hair and make up. I thought my life was flashing before my eyes.

  11. #41
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    Martin, your life really is flashing in front of your eyes.

    Soon you will be the man in the high castle.

    paul.meme
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  12. #42
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    I think it's very hard to dislike Franz Ferdinand- almost every track on their album could be a single, and although there's nothing there that couldn't have been done in 1980, it's never been delivered with quite this easy-sipping smoothness.

    The Libertines are fairly rubbish, but a lot better than Athlete, Snow Patrol, Keane and that lot, all of whom should be physically restrained from entering a recording studio again.

    To get all these indie bands out of the way in one post, The Futureheads are much better live than on their fairly disappointing debut album. That Hounds Of Love cover makes me shrug, too.

  13. #43
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    [QUOTE=henrymiller]
    and i refuse to believe that ANYONE really likes stuff like athlete or snow patrol. people who think they like them don't really know what liking a band means.[/QUOTE

    this second sentence is as rockist as can be: of course people like this music. obv people over a certain age don't because they've heard go4, and they know all about john lydon's ground-breaking new musik capital radio appearance 'can 68 suicide 74 i was there' yada-blah ain't lcd grand. but people who are, say, 17-18, or younger, don't know this stuff, and they connect with the music. sure the nme is telling them to, a bit, but that was true of the penmaniacs and morleyites and their fave bands 20 years ago. ver kidz aren't any more or less gullible now than then (though there are fewer of them, perhaps). you can argue the toss over modernism and be proved 'right' but you can't argue that the fans don't like what they like.

    i was pointing out that the people i know who listen to athlete and snow patrol [and i know quite a few of them, in the late teens age group as i'm only a few years older than that myself] don't really seem to have any of the passion and enthusiasm for that music that is a large part of what i'd say being into music is all about.

    this isn't a 'rockist' position at all, i think: i went to a happy hardcore rave on saturday night and there were hundreds of teenagers going crazy over the music they loved. being truly enthusiastic about music is surely a neutral position as regards 'rockism'? and i certainly wasn't condoning any lcd style 'you have to go right back to the beginning of the scene to know what yr talking about' stance. i hate all that stuff. i've never heard can or gang of four, and i don't feel that that makes me unqualified to comment on, or listen to, post-rock or post-punk.

    in my experience, most people who like athlete, snow patrol, keane, 'use' this music in a different way from, for example, the happy hardcore kids- as a background to writing their essays, or something to listen to while doing the washing up, or whatever. that's fine, and i listen to music in similar ways quite often, but what worries me is that for many people of my age this is THE ONLY place music has in their lives. may be it's the NME's fault, may it isn't. i just find it sad, because i think there is music out there that for just about anyone to really love, and we're at the stage now where that kind of experience is lacking in a lot of people's lives. i don't know why: it could be that the media is 'failing' people by not giving them info on bands they can connect with, but i'm not sure.

    of course some teenage indie fans love the music and it means a lot to them. but many don't. the time of large scale teenage cultures in pop music seems to have disappeared. for many people my age, music doesn't seem to matter all that much- a music scene sweeping the country like punk or rave or rock n roll did is hard to imagine now.




    oh, and i actually do quite like some libertines songs, by the way.
    Last edited by simon silverdollar; 21-02-2005 at 12:09 PM.

  14. #44
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    'can 68 suicide 74 i was there' yada-blah ain't lcd grand
    The point is, he wasn't, AFAIK.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diggedy Derek
    I think it's very hard to dislike Franz Ferdinand.
    Not for me it isn't. :-) Believe me, I don't find it difficult to recoil in depressed horror from that dry as brickdust, stiff as arthritic joints guitar sound.

    Because for me THERE IS NO GOOD INDIE. Indie, guitar rock, whatever you want to call it, is a priori bad: it was defined reactively from its very inception, it will never not be reactive, it can't be.

    Listen to the sold dreams, the lowered expectations, the thousand different ways of coming to some accomodation with the so-called reality principle that subtend all defences of shillyshambling. 'It's new to the kids': i.e. exactly the same argument we exoriated ten years ago in 'Pomophobia'.

    Does anyone really think that, yeh, much better to have Doherty and fucking Elbow rather than the Kinks and Joy Division? In which case, why defend them? Making it TOO EASY for indie windies to have their delusions of competence and relevance ludicrously confirmed is a major part of the syndrome.

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