High profiles murders in the U.S: what is going on?

IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
"Why don't brain injuries in, say, Swedish people lead to serial killings as well?"
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Interesting that you should say Sweden as I believe that Scandinavian countries have a fairly high incidence of school shooting massacres. Let me check that. I can't find a definitive list of school massacres (what a weird subject to be talking about) by country but looks as though there have been two recent Finnish incidents at least:

http://www.independent.ie/world-new...link-in-finnish-school-massacres-1481660.html

Also that same google reveals a Norwegian school that was shut because of what appeared to be a credible threat of a similar event. Not quite the same obviously but noteworthy none the less.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I heard Finland has western Europe's highest murder rate (although if you count the UK's constituent countries separately, Scotland takes the top spot). But then I think Findland's culturally quite distinct from the Nordic countries.

As regards serial killers with 'normal' (vs. horrifically fucked-up) childhoods, I'm sure I heard that one of the US's most infamous 20th-C mass murderers - Dahmer, Bundy, one of those guys maybe - had been shown photos when he was a kid taken by an older brother or cousin who'd come back from Vietnam, which showed all kinds of sick fucked-up shit (mutilations, torture, child rape...) committed by US troops who'd just gone completely batshit insane while serving there - anyone else able to corroborate this?
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
"But then I think Findland's culturally quite distinct from the Nordic countries."
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Well, very different language certainly. Some might posit the long periods of early evenings or no light as something that could have an effect on the national psyche and Finland does share that with the other Scandinavian countries I believe.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Oh for sure, there's the climate/landscape/latitude aspect too which is going to be fairly similar, but I get the impression there are important cultural differences. I think the country has a lot of leftover war trauma from being Stalin's "buffer zone" against Nazi-occupied Sweden, for one thing.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
Anyway, my point was that these things do occur in countries where you wouldn't necessarily expect them to, not just in the US. I would like to see a list of countries where this does happen and the relevant frequencies as I suspect that there are significant national variations (and my guess is that the US and, perhaps strangely, some Scandanavian countries would be high on the list).
 
S

Shonx

Shallow House
I do remember that films got more graphically violent during and after Vietnam - soldiers coming home sure weren't going to swallow people getting shot in aesthetically pleasing ways.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Shonx said:
Necrophilia isn't common to all serial killers. If you're interested in the subject I suggest reading this -

http://www.rbooks.co.uk/product.aspx?id=0753513218

Very good look into the psychological and environmental factors in the development of killers. It's a bit of a Pandora's box affair though, so be warned. ;)
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Necrophilia *is* common to sexual sadist murderers, although not in the literal mechanical sense that of course men assume I mean by it :eek: Necrophilia isn't just having intercourse with dead things, it's a sexual fascination with dead things or a fetish for dead things. You don't have to act on it to have it. You can kill someone for reasons related to necrophilia without "commiting" it, so to speak. In fact, there's little reason to actually kill victims if you're just a sadist, you'd rather keep them alive and suffering. The swift way most serial killers get through the torture part to the murder suggests that the killing and the death are the goals that are constitutive of their pathology, and not just a convenient way to be sure the victim can't take revenge or legal measures.

Edit: Also, it's not that I don't think that brain injuries can have radical effects on people and their behaviors, but I what I question is whether brain injuries can create problems that were never there to begin with (for example, sadism, narcissism, etc). I think it's far more likely that brain injuries scramble or disrupt the layers of cognitive function that have built up that keep someone from acting on their more disturbing impulses...
 
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nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
IdleRich said:
Anyway, my point was that these things do occur in countries where you wouldn't necessarily expect them to, not just in the US. I would like to see a list of countries where this does happen and the relevant frequencies as I suspect that there are significant national variations (and my guess is that the US and, perhaps strangely, some Scandanavian countries would be high on the list).
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Yeah, I'm sure they do similar things in other countries, but what I wonder is why per capita America's murder rate is so high, and especially the serial murder rate. It's an interesting subject, there's a lot to get into with it...

Comparison between cultures seems a little difficult just because it's such a complex set of cultural and psychological factors you have to consider...
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
IdleRich said:
Anyway, my point was that these things do occur in countries where you wouldn't necessarily expect them to, not just in the US. I would like to see a list of countries where this does happen and the relevant frequencies as I suspect that there are significant national variations (and my guess is that the US and, perhaps strangely, some Scandanavian countries would be high on the list).
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You know, I've been thinking about this Scandinavian idea and it's interesting, there is that heritage however remote of full-on "rape, torture, kill" berserkerism from way back when going on there. The Scandie side of my family is also pretty physically aggressive and all about physical competitions, but I don't know if that's a cultural thing there...they attribute it to being Scandinavian themselves...
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
nomadthesecond said:
You know, I've been thinking about this Scandinavian idea and it's interesting, there is that heritage however remote of full-on "rape, torture, kill" berserkerism from way back when going on there. The Scandie side of my family is also pretty physically aggressive and all about physical competitions, but I don't know if that's a cultural thing there...they attribute it to being Scandinavian themselves...
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The Vikings were well-known for going nuts when they were 'on tour', but within their own communities they were pretty law-abiding - probably more so than most of the rest of (Christian) Europe at the time. Even the word 'law' comes to English from Old Norse.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Mr. Tea said:
The Vikings were well-known for going nuts when they were 'on tour', but within their own communities they were pretty law-abiding - probably more so than most of the rest of (Christian) Europe at the time. Even the word 'law' comes to English from Old Norse.
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Huh, yeah, I've heard lots of stories about how nice it is over there, where there are so few social problems. (Maybe it's easy to have so few social problems when there's no diaspora? Who knows.)

Like there were some Danish people in New York who got in all sorts of trouble for leaving their baby alone in a stroller outside a restaurant while they went in to eat. This is just not done over here, but they seemed really shocked that anyone cared. Apparently this is common practice over there?
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Maybe, I don't know - I was talking specifically about Viking-age Scandinavia, not the modern countries. But yeah, by all accounts they're quite chilled out (except the black metal guys, I guess :)) and I read about a recent survey that suggested the Danes were on average the happiest country in Europe, however you measure that. But I also gather that Denmark, Sweden and Norway are a lot more different from each other than people from outside those countries tend to think.
 
S

Shonx

Shallow House
After the controversy about the Baby P murders in the Uk, thought it might be worth mentioning the cases from the 60's regarding Sylvia Likens and another featuring Dennis Jurgens - both pretty disgusting cases that do indicate that sadistic shitbags have been around for rather longer than we might think (both have got entries on wikipedia)
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
There have been ANOTHER couple of murdered toddlers in the headlines, even while the Baby P case is still in the news. And suspicions that Shannon Mathews, the girl in the 'DIY Maddie' case, had been drugged before being pseudo-kidnapped. A great couple of days for British parenting skills, then.
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
Mr. Tea said:
There have been ANOTHER couple of murdered toddlers in the headlines, even while the Baby P case is still in the news. And suspicions that Shannon Mathews, the girl in the 'DIY Maddie' case, had been drugged before being pseudo-kidnapped. A great couple of days for British parenting skills, then.
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The Shannon Matthews case (if all the suspicions prove correct) is the most demented thing ever - proper 'stranger than fiction' shit.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
crackerjack said:
The Shannon Matthews case (if all the suspicions prove correct) is the most demented thing ever - proper 'stranger than fiction' shit.
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Yup - pop criminologists will be living fat on books about that case for years to come, I reckon.
 
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