Pretentious Crap

Tentative Andy said:

and the use of 'think' as an intransitive verb.

Click to expand...

I can understand where you're coming from on this, but it's a convention in philosophy and theory to use "think" this way when you're talking about not just describing something in basic terms but very precisely thinking through a problem and formulating a solution (usually complete with jargon and new terminology to match).

Of course this probably still sounds pretentious but it comes in handy in a philosophy class.

nomadthesecond said:

My mom is not a hipster, and you know what? She spends exactly zero time bitching about how hipsters are a blight on humanity. In fact, she probably has no idea what a hipster is. In her mind, when she sees hipsters, she thinks they're just "young" and trendy kids, doing what young people do--partying and wearing trendy clothes. (Just like they've been doing for quite a few decades now, like they did when she was a young, trendy hippy...)

Click to expand...

I see what you are saying here, and if I am honest with myself, I definitely fall into the hipster marketing demographic despite my constant bitching about them (I even worked at an American Apparel, so the proximity is there.)

It's not really pretension that has ever bothered me, or how they dress, or what they do on the weekends, or any of that. For me, it is just what you and I have discussed in another thread before, that stinking attitude towards mostly artistic pursuits where they are mostly after the image ("I am an artist"), and aren't too bothered about doing any of the actual work, or investing time or themselves into it, or getting good at it or anything. This attitude has all but destroyed Toronto's downtown nightlife, and is working on doing the same to the art scene (to a much lesser extent though because learning to draw is typically a lot harder than learning how to use Serato).

Aside from that I'm not really too big on that glammy, false-celebrity culture they have going on, but maybe that's just in Toronto and a scene thing. On the whole, hipsterism has always been an attitude thing for me, not a demographic thing.

Sick Boy said:

I see what you are saying here, and if I am honest with myself, I definitely fall into the hipster marketing demographic despite my constant bitching about them

Click to expand...

You betray a fundamental misunderstanding of hipsterism with this sentence: because of or what with would make more sense here than despite.

i just want to point out that my mum was into Animal Collective waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before nomad's mum was.

Mr. Tea said:

You betray a fundamental misunderstanding of hipsterism with this sentence: because of or what with would make more sense here than despite.

Click to expand...

haha, touché - I guess I'll start referring to them as "gits" then.

I'd be inclined to make a distinction between "pretentious people" and "pretentious crap." We all talk pretentious crap sometimes. There isn't just one group of people - the "pretentious people" - who do it. Also, in my experience pretentious crap has mostly emerged as a function of narrow-mindedness or insecurity rather than straight-up malicious intent. I think a lot of it is about not recognizing your blindspots, or sort of papering over them with bluster.

Click to expand...

Given that I agree, and believe that this is indeed the case, I'd take exception with your initial example of what constitutes "pretentious" language or crap.

It itself was pretentious, because it demonstrated a superficial familiarity with certain writers/concepts (Deleuze was one, iirc) that was used opportunistically to demonstrate some sort of intellectual superiority, and if I'm not mistaken was meant to parody anyone who actually does engage full-time with them.

Believe it or not, it is possible to understand these writers and their work while in fact adding to the discourse surrouding them-- even to challenge them-- in a way that is not pretentious, because for some people these things are simply not that difficult to comprehend. It comes naturally, in the same way that for some it comes naturally to throw a ball into a basket from the 3 point range. Of course, not everyone is expected to be interested in contemporary theory and philosophy, but that doesn't mean that it's worthless.

I'd rather die than watch people play basketball, but that doesn't mean Kobe Bryant isn't talented, even if he's probably a rapist.

"I'd rather die than watch people play basketball"

Click to expand...

Surely something we can all agree on.

this may also be of interest: http://www.math.yorku.ca/SCS/Gallery/badwriting.html

i'm staying out of this one. apparently pretentious is a dirty word around here. i don't get it. being pretentious is one of the few things that really gives me joy in this world. but i draw the line at like Stelarc - or middle aged men who photograph themselves nude while translating avant-garde sound poetry into interpretive dance and shit like that.

josef k. said:

"Believe it or not, it is possible to understand these writers and their work while in fact adding to the discourse surrouding them"

Oh, I believe this. But often its just pretentious crap.

Click to expand...

Often? How often? Who gets to decide? You do? I'm guessing this means that anything you read and don't understand is pretentious?

IdleRich said:

Surely something we can all agree on.

Click to expand...

I'd also rather shove bamboo shoots under my fingernails than watch soccer.

Agent Nucleus said:

this may also be of interest: http://www.math.yorku.ca/SCS/Gallery/badwriting.html

i'm staying out of this one. apparently pretentious is a dirty word around here. i don't get it. being pretentious is one of the few things that really gives me joy in this world. but i draw the line at like Stelarc - or middle aged men who photograph themselves nude while translating avant-garde sound poetry into interpretive dance and shit like that.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I know what you mean. Everyone has to draw a line somewhere. It's obviously a subjective distinction.

Like for me Sundance and a lot of independent film festival shit has always seemed really pretentious in that distinctively American way that's very not typically European and literary but it's still fucking pretentious as hell.

Stelarc's ace, though. I've met him. Very unpretentious guy.

I don't know why I'd never heard of Stelarc until now.

But people outside the U.S. might not realize how much bad performance art there is in the U.S.

For every one Stelarc you've seen a hundred really bad copies. REally really really bad ones.

josef k. said:

"Often? How often? Who gets to decide? You do? I'm guessing this means that anything you read and don't understand is pretentious?"

Not necessarily. For instance, I sometimes come across things that I don't quite understand and which seem to me needlessly confrontational. But I don't necessarily assume they're pretentious. They could simply be a sign that their author isn't especially interested in conversing with people in a pleasant and mutually respectful manner.

Click to expand...

Ok, Josef. We all understand that your feelings are hurt because certain people don't agree with you about Zizek's alleged fascist status.

But do we really need to start thread after thread where we passive-aggressively refuse to address this issue (or those who disagreed with you on this issue) directly, and instead try to insinuate that everyone but you has some sort of massive character flaws that you yourself do not have, simply because they disagree with you on this one issue?

It strikes me as particularly immature.

You are not some sort of pariah because I've strongly disagreed with you. Take a look around. I strongly disagree with a lot of people. That's my personality. I'm the first person to admit that I'm outspoken and opinionated. I've done it plenty of times. I enjoy coming here to read diverse perspectives and weigh in, not to agree with everyone. Don't take anything I've said too personally, because it wasn't meant personally. I don't know you.

I'm also from New York, so there are cultural factors at work here. Based on New York standards, the way I express myself here is extremely polite. It always makes me chuckle when I express things here exactly the way I would speak them (which would be taken as entirely normal and not rude at all in person where I live) at home and people completely FLIP because they think I'm being intentionally rude.

I may be direct, blunt, and opinionated, but at least I'm not passive-aggressive. And I'm ok with that.

josef k. said:

I have completely flipped, its true.

Click to expand...

I never said you were the one who flipped. Some people don't seem to realize that there are regional and cultural differences in the way people express things, but especially in idioms that are just common and not considered rude or mean.

Based on what I've seen here of sensitivity to wording and swearing, if some of the people here went to Brooklyn and carried on a normal conversation they'd probably like cry themselves to sleep afterward.