kids

Z

zhao

there are no accidents
maybe here we can talk about various things related to them...

really i dont envy kids growing up today... the going is going to get rougher as they get older. berlin is a great place to raise a child, as it is so safe with low crime rate and i see 7 year olds riding the trains by themselves all the time. how is it where you are?

also, those of you with children of 6/7 or older, what do you do with the internet when you are not there? my young friend found a forum for children yesterday and started posting (i think because she saw me posting on dissensus), and i started worrying what the older kids might be talking about on there: drugs, sex, etc. i mean the web is really pretty damn scary if you think about it, she can be very easily exposed to things that might be very upsetting or bad for someone who doesnt yet understand a lot about the world or differentiate between things.

im making her a series of compilation cds because she loves music: so far there is an electronic volume with things like ISAN and Mouse on Mars and Broadcast and Bjork, and an African volume with a bunch of great 60s and 70s recordings on it. and there will be a rock one, a Pop one and a Classical and latin and jazz and hiphop... if anyone else with kids might be interested i can upload them?

good week to you and your little ones...
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
Just quickly, the main thing I worry about is the main thing my parents worried about - my child getting run over by a car.

The internet, picking up syringes, general exposure to urban badness is a lesser issue by quite a large margin I think.

London has been pretty amazing in terms of her exposure to different kinds of people and possibilities.

We try to limit our seven year old's screen-time and generally are in the same room as her when she is using the internet. Even then you do get some pretty weird stuff that shows up on youtube, for example. She doesn't bother with forums or instant messaging yet... but she may be talking about sex and drugs in the playground and a few things have cropped up now and again..

as ever the usual cliches about being there to talk about anything apply...
 
B

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Berlin does seem a great place to raise kids - my recent ex-flatmate in Prenzlauer berg/Pram-berg had an 18-month year old, and it seemed like such a nice environment to raise a kid in (lots of other young mothers too, so lots of playgrounds etc).

I'm sure some areas of London have a similarly nice environment. Wouldn't want to raise a kid in, say, Brixton (where I live now)...to me it's a safe area if you're an adult, but for teenage boys (and girls too) it's a very, very different world.
 
swears

swears

preppy-kei
I hate children, they creep me out. I never want to have kids. I think women are crazy for going through pregnancy and childbirth, and parents are crazy in general for putting up with their kids' bullshit. If an adult acted like that, they'd be in a nuthouse or out on the street.
 
Tentative Andy

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
Yeah - what swears said, if I'm being honest. Though I am still hoping that this itself is an attitude I will manage to grow out of.
 
swears

swears

preppy-kei
If you cooked a meal for someone, then they refused to eat it because "it's got bits in", you'd think they were the most ungrateful bastard ever!

And if I drew a rubbish picture of me and a dog and the sun smiling in the sky, you'd tell me it was shit rather than coo and make a fuss like it was the greatest thing ever.

Put them to work up chimneys or something.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Tentative Andy said:
Yeah - what swears said, if I'm being honest. Though I am still hoping that this itself is an attitude I will manage to grow out of.
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Well. Some people aren't really psychologically equipped to have children, and some simply don't have the desire to do so. It doesn't make them bad people. I think it's much more admirable to think about these things, long and hard, before you bring children into the world--better than doing it on a lark and regretting it later.

It's total bullshit the whole "life is sacred" line coming out of people's mouths who don't care what happens to a fetus once it's on the outside. If life is so sacred, it would seem even more important that it not be entered into lightly, and that you make informed decisions about which embryos you carry full term.
 
swears

swears

preppy-kei
Seriously though, I can just about look after myself with the help of my girlfriend, mates, family, my GP, etc...

So having the massive responsibility that making sure someone else is sheltered, fed, clean, healthy, educated, socialised and safe is terrifying.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
swears said:
Seriously though, I can just about look after myself with the help of my girlfriend, mates, family, my GP, etc...

So having the massive responsibility that making sure someone else is sheltered, fed, clean, healthy, educated, socialised and safe is terrifying.
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Agree 100%. This is a healthy fear. If more people had this fear, we would not have a society full of idiot babies having babies and then dumping them at with their grandparents while they go out and party.

I don't think many parents really parent anymore, though. The TV parents for a lot of them.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
zhao said:
also, those of you with children of 6/7 or older, what do you do with the internet when you are not there? my young friend found a forum for children yesterday and started posting (i think because she saw me posting on dissensus), and i started worrying what the older kids might be talking about on there: drugs, sex, etc. i mean the web is really pretty damn scary if you think about it, she can be very easily exposed to things that might be very upsetting or bad for someone who doesnt yet understand a lot about the world or differentiate between things.
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It's like John Eden said, s/he could be exposed to these things on the play ground, too.

I think it's probably even better if a kid experiments with "drugs" online (looks up info or message boards) than in real life where they could conceivably run into real drugs. Sex? It's all the same anywhere. You're never going to shelter a kid from sex, but you can teach them that there a predators out there, so don't venture out alone without letting someone know where you're going.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
swears said:
Seriously though, I can just about look after myself with the help of my girlfriend, mates, family, my GP, etc...

So having the massive responsibility that making sure someone else is sheltered, fed, clean, healthy, educated, socialised and safe is terrifying.
Click to expand...

There's an argument that suddenly having this helpless, mewling proto-person to look after 24/7 kicks people into shape and, simply by being a bigger threat to your comfort and sanity than any of your other problems, somehow makes them easier to deal with. I'm not saying I entirely buy this argument - but it is there.

I'd love to have kids one day but not until I'm a good order-of-magnitude more settled, mature and wealthy than I am now.
 
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nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Mr. Tea said:
There's an argument that suddenly having this helpless, mewling proto-person to look after 24/7 kicks people into shape and, simply by being a bigger threat to your comfort and sanity than any of your other problems, somehow makes them easier to deal with. I'm not saying entirely buy this argument - but it is there.

I'd love to have kids one day but not until I'm a good order-of-magnitude more settled, mature and wealthy than I am now.
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Ever notice how this argument is almost always made by people who already have kids and can't magically hit the "kids off" switch and go back? It is usually followed by something condescending about how skewed your priorities are until you have kids, and how you don't really find out what the meaning of life is until you knock one out.

The second paragraph is really important though. I think I might adopt kids some day. When I am done with my residency and have a private practice.
 
M

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
john eden said:
Just quickly, the main thing I worry about is the main thing my parents worried about - my child getting run over by a car.
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Sorry John but it doesn't get easier either! I still have that one about Vicky and she's 18 now...

Kids up until about 11-ish tend to be pretty self-sufficient, really, and that goes with the internet and stuff as well, I've found that if a young person finds something they don't like (in a film, on the net, in the street!) they just go 'eurggh' or laugh really embarrassed and look away and get on with what they are interested in, like sweets or dancing around or whatever, unless you're freaked out about it, in which case it rubs off. I think kids are much more affected by mood than anything else.
All you have to do is be around, and cook food, really, and they do the rest, they're kindof weirdly self-sufficient after about 4. Lovely exhausting psychic vampires that they are.

I wouldn't worry about it too much Zhao but worry does kinda go with the territory though.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
john eden said:
as ever the usual cliches about being there to talk about anything apply...
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You know it sounds so cliched but it's true...my dad was just so chill and understanding about everything, and that meant I didn't hesitate to discuss anything that may have gone wrong at school or ask him for advice on something in my personal life...but my mother was the opposite and freaked out about the tiniest thing to the point where I hid everything from her (and so did my dad).

Point being if you want to know what's going on in your kid's life, don't panic about the normal, rocky pre-pubescent shit and teen angst experiences. Or they will shut you out completely.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
i guess it depends but i generally like spending time with kids. you catch a bit of the thinking out of the box spontaneous vibe, unpredictable and refreshing, and often very very funny. some of their logic make such strange sense sometimes and some of the things they say... it's kind of like hanging out with half a little animal half a human - i feel really relaxed and can relate to them on a "pure" level without the self conscious rituals and protocol of adult social codes. kids are like improvised music -- everyone should experience it regularly.
 
L

littlebird

Wild Horses
mistersloane said:
All you have to do is be around, and cook food, really, and they do the rest, they're kindof weirdly self-sufficient after about 4. Lovely exhausting psychic vampires that they are.

I wouldn't worry about it too much Zhao but worry does kinda go with the territory though.
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i have 3. varying ages.
and they are weirdly self-sufficient in many ways, and yet full of needs, as well.

i won't make an arguement here that is "stereotypical" to parents about how life-changing it is, or how it grounded me, or how i never wanted them until i had them. though i will say that worry goes along with it, that it isn't something that should be taken lightly, and that better to know you want them, or don't want them, before...well before you have one.

so many unwanted children.

the worry does not end, though. and so many decisions that you know will have an impact. best thing is to realize you will fuck up, and they will fuck up, and just be available to them.

as for the TV as a parent, i watched far more TV as a child then mine do. i mean, its hard being an on my own parent and not have media options to rely on, but there is more than TV: books, the internet (there are ways to be careful with it), painting, writing, other arts, music, etc.

zhao - the music compilations you are making, very cool.
 
D

droid

Guest
Kids are great... just great. Its all hardwired and hormonal of course, but nothing in life compares to meeting yours for the first time, or getting the first smile...

After years of having 'the fear' Im now wondering why we didn't do it sooner. Its not the nightmare I always thought it would be. Physically and emotionally exhausting sure, but not that bad really.
 
R

Rambler

Awanturnik
zhao said:
kids are like improvised music -- everyone should experience it regularly.
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Nice.

Like the sound of the compilations. Been meaning to put some of these together for my girl. She's too young to tell the difference (beyond "stuff that's fun to dance to" and "stuff that isn't"), but the 60s/70s African one sounds cool - what's on it?
 
L

Lichen

Well-known member
nomadthesecond said:
:don't panic about the normal, rocky pre-pubescent shit and teen angst experiences. Or they will shut you out completely.
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I guess the important thing is to work what this is for their generation. It'll be fundamentally the same as the "rocky pre-pubescent shit and teen angst experiences" I had, but it'll look and sound different.
 
S

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
The main reason I don't want them right now is because I totally believe that it would be an amazing thing that I wouldn't regret, and I could see myself, from the day that I see its weird little red face in the hospital, going to every possible length to try an achieve the impossible task that it will be healthy, smart and happy for the rest of its life.

Thing is: I haven't done these things for myself yet, so no dice, kiddo.
Oh, also, I am a drunk - which isn't condusive to parenting I hear.
 
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