Acid tekno

hamarplazt

100% No Soul Guaranteed
Oh come on. With all due respect to the German techno pioneers (all the guys you mentioned + Torsten Fenslau, Oliver Lieb, the Voight brothers, Thomas Fehlmann, Ernestus/Von Oswald, etc.) and to all the kraut/avant/early electronic guys who came before them, that's just not true. As I suspect most of those German techno pioneers would be the first to admit. This, for example. Not to say that Detroit was the sole birthplace or that it produces the only true/pure/etc. techno, rather that Detroit & Germany were heavily influential on one another. And still are - just look at Moodymann/Parrish/Omar-S etc. and the recent surge of Euro deep house.
What part of it is not true? I'm not claiming that the germans invented techno, but that they had their own scene going on independent of the detroit one, and that their early rave scene - from which most of their later development came - was built on this scene in combination with acid. And I'm claiming that without detroit, most of the nineties german development would have happened more or less the same way. Sure, something like the Tresor thing would have been different (much more built on house I'd say), but it would stille exist.

Anyway, that berlin minimal stuff has always been a pretty small part of the overall german scene - just like with detroit purists in the UK. The real interesting things happended in the much more rave related areas. Gabber, trance, the mayday events, and, yes, much acid too. And detroit didn't start being mentioned and integrated until some years into the nineties, when german techno had been around and huge for several years allready. Please notice the release year of that tresor compilation.
 

Chris

fractured oscillations
I associate "tekno" w/the free party/travelling scene, anonymous (and not in a Basic Channel/Burial anti-identity way, but truly anonymous) music meant to bang away for hours while people do a lot of drugs. The epitomy of tracks over tunes, so to speak. Nought wrong with that of course;)

immediately thought of this...

so this thread is about that stuff....

there's something so acid, as in the drug sense, about that splashy reverb under the 303. It made it perfect to an outdoor setting too. They used to have these desert parties out here in Cali called Moontribe, though I stil think they're going on up north, all about that vibe. Think they moved on to Tribal, Goa and Psy, but I guess that stuff has a similar rhythmic feel/tempo.
 

hamarplazt

100% No Soul Guaranteed
Conjecture :)
You think all those people wouldn't have continued to make music if they hadn't been introduced to detroit techno?

Not true, ask Inner City.
Actually, I once asked a guy involved in the early germanic rave scene (the part taking place in denmark, but still the same music involved) about if they were aware of any detroit stuff at all, and he mentioned Inner City as the onle thing they had ever heard about. And then said, "but that was because it was just chart pop, something you heard at disco clubs, not what we would consider techno at all!"
 

mms

sometimes
that sounds weird as uk heads weeer listening to techno in '87 -88'

a dude i know a little did this film called we call it techno about the history of the german techno scene:

http://www.myspace.com/technohistory

the story of german techno scene is probably really bloody interesting innit,
the love parade was going in 89' which is mad, looks really decadent.
 

hamarplazt

100% No Soul Guaranteed
that sounds weird as uk heads weeer listening to techno in '87 -88'

a dude i know a little did this film called we call it techno about the history of the german techno scene:

http://www.myspace.com/technohistory

the story of german techno scene is probably really bloody interesting innit,
the love parade was going in 89' which is mad, looks really decadent.
There wasn't much interaction between the british and the german scene of the late eighties, they followed differet routes. And exactly the point that germany had its own techno thing going on was very important for that, I think. They weren't as dependant on import records as the british. As far as I've heard, house and acid first made a really big impact in germany through new beat, which makes sense because there was a good deal of EBM in that style as well, so it would fit much smoother with what they were playing in their clubs allready. There were exceptions too, of course. Someone like Westbam had a kind of hip house style on his early records. But yeah, it would be wonderful if there was someone who had written a well researched book about it. Wish I could see that movie, but my computer is too slow.
 

Martin Dust

Techno Zen Master
You think all those people wouldn't have continued to make music if they hadn't been introduced to detroit techno?!"

That wasn't the original statement and how can anyone answer that, it happened and it didn't happen in a bubble, just like Detriot techno.

Actually, I once asked a guy involved in the early germanic rave scene (the part taking place in denmark, but still the same music involved) about if they were aware of any detroit stuff at all, and he mentioned Inner City as the onle thing they had ever heard about. And then said, "but that was because it was just chart pop, something you heard at disco clubs, not what we would consider techno at all!"

But that's like I know a bloke down the pub, it doesn't work like that.
 

hamarplazt

100% No Soul Guaranteed
That wasn't the original statement and how can anyone answer that, it happened and it didn't happen in a bubble, just like Detriot techno.
The original statement was that there would still be some kind of scene around these places in berlin and the same people. Well, of course we'll never know, but why on earth not? I never said it happened in a bubble.

But that's like I know a bloke down the pub, it doesn't work like that.
It was an anecdote, meant to illustrate that of course people knew Inner City, they had big hits. But were they influenced by them? Did they think of it as "techno"? People familiar with the "new dance sound of detroit"-compilation might, but otherwise there's not much reason to do so. It certainly sound like chart pop to me.
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
Wow, lots of tune suggestions, thanks all. Slowly working through them, what I've heard so far has been all good :D. To people who are talking about it in relation to the free-party/squat-rave scene - well yes, that is what, as someone who doesn't know much about this style of music, I associated it with initially in my head. Tunes like London Acid City (by Loki? Not sure, but it's a cracker anyway). But it's been a nice surprise to learn that acid techno as a scene and style seems to extend beyond this.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
What part of it is not true? I'm not claiming that the germans invented techno, but that they had their own scene going on independent of the detroit one, and that their early rave scene - from which most of their later development came - was built on this scene in combination with acid.

The point isn't that Germany wouldn't have an electronic music scene. Look, Detroit techno isn't purely a Detroit creation, right? I mean, it's E2-E4 + Funakdelic + Yellow Magic Orchestra + a ton of other stuff. Likewise, German techno isn't purely German. That "early rave scene" didn't develop in a vacuum.

Anyway, that berlin minimal stuff has always been a pretty small part of the overall german scene - just like with detroit purists in the UK. The real interesting things happended in the much more rave related areas. Gabber, trance, the mayday events, and, yes, much acid too.

I call bullshit on your claim that all the "real interesting" things happened in gabber, trance, acid, etc. That argument doesn't even really make sense, it's not as if trance and mnml happened in two separate hermetically sealed rooms and never the twain shall meet. What about a guy like Wolfgang Voight who's made both acid records and Basic Channel-influenced minimal? Or the whole PCP/The Mover/Mescalinum United thing? Even Oliver Lieb, of whom I'm a massive fan, has a couple of mnml releases in his back catalogue.
 

hamarplazt

100% No Soul Guaranteed
The point isn't that Germany wouldn't have an electronic music scene. Look, Detroit techno isn't purely a Detroit creation, right? I mean, it's E2-E4 + Funakdelic + Yellow Magic Orchestra + a ton of other stuff. Likewise, German techno isn't purely German. That "early rave scene" didn't develop in a vacuum.
I agree with this, sure. I never said it developed in a vacuum. My point was that detroit techno wasn't an indispensable part of what the german techno scene became overall. You certainly couldn't remove an impact from american house and acid generally.

I call bullshit on your claim that all the "real interesting" things happened in gabber, trance, acid, etc. That argument doesn't even really make sense, it's not as if trance and mnml happened in two separate hermetically sealed rooms and never the twain shall meet. What about a guy like Wolfgang Voight who's made both acid records and Basic Channel-influenced minimal? Or the whole PCP/The Mover/Mescalinum United thing? Even Oliver Lieb, of whom I'm a massive fan, has a couple of mnml releases in his back catalogue.
Again, I never said those things happened separately, just that the detroit techno component wasn't crucial for most of it. Minimalism doesn't have to come from detroit either, a lot of acid house was totally minimal too. What someone find interesting could always be debated of course, but the more eager a scene is to pledge allegience to some sacred ancestor, the less it will develop something new (what I'd call "interesting") it seems to me.

Good to see someone else being into Lieb, btw!
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
Big yay to Padraig for posting Didgeredoo, hadn't noticed that before. That track always makes me think of a big crowd raving with the lights switched off, interspersed with a swarm of angry bees buzzing down a street. :)
 

DJ PIMP

Well-known member
Actually, I once asked a guy involved in the early germanic rave scene (the part taking place in denmark, but still the same music involved) about if they were aware of any detroit stuff at all, and he mentioned Inner City as the onle thing they had ever heard about. And then said, "but that was because it was just chart pop, something you heard at disco clubs, not what we would consider techno at all!"
Oh dear, Disco-Techno Segregation Syndrome.

Sux 2 b that guy.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
What someone find interesting could always be debated of course, but the more eager a scene is to pledge allegience to some sacred ancestor, the less it will develop something new (what I'd call "interesting") it seems to me.

That's a point I can agree with. Let me be clear too that while I love a ton of Detroit techno and have enormous respect for Atkins, Carl Craig, Mike Banks, etc. (as well as all the deep house guys), I think that museum curator mentality about "Detroit techno" is totally lame and does a disservice both to the many pioneers of electronic music from other places and to the Detroit producers themselves.


Good to see someone else being into Lieb, btw!

Oh yeah, he's on my short list of genius producers with Craig, Photek, Wiley, etc. I'm not much for trance but he's the major exception, which I'd guess is the case for a lot of people.
 

hamarplazt

100% No Soul Guaranteed
Oh dear, Disco-Techno Segregation Syndrome.

Sux 2 b that guy.
That guy was actually Lasse Steen, who made countless hardcore acid records that really belongs in this thread I think. The funny thing is that now he's producing completely populist dance/trance, so his discophobia is certainly over. The point, though, was that for him techno startet with the industrial/ebm-end of things.
 

hamarplazt

100% No Soul Guaranteed
That's a point I can agree with. Let me be clear too that while I love a ton of Detroit techno and have enormous respect for Atkins, Carl Craig, Mike Banks, etc. (as well as all the deep house guys), I think that museum curator mentality about "Detroit techno" is totally lame and does a disservice both to the many pioneers of electronic music from other places and to the Detroit producers themselves.
Totally with you here. It's not that the detroit producers didn't make good music or don't deserve their place in electronic music history, it's those people who have devoted their life to defending the "faith" and pushing their own narrow view of that history that annoys me.

Something like the rough guide to techno is a prime example, filled to the brink with every minor detroit producer they can find - or minor detroit techno producers from all of the world for that matter - while not even mentioning people like Marc Acardipane or Martin Damm or Like A Tim. It's also the book that gave me the impression that Oliver Lieb is generally not respected, they see him as some kind of cheap and cheesy frankfurt trance merchant, but maybe its just them? I certainly hope so, he have made so much great and unique stuff.
 
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