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Thread: Acid tekno

  1. #31
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamarplazt View Post
    What part of it is not true? I'm not claiming that the germans invented techno, but that they had their own scene going on independent of the detroit one, and that their early rave scene - from which most of their later development came - was built on this scene in combination with acid.
    The point isn't that Germany wouldn't have an electronic music scene. Look, Detroit techno isn't purely a Detroit creation, right? I mean, it's E2-E4 + Funakdelic + Yellow Magic Orchestra + a ton of other stuff. Likewise, German techno isn't purely German. That "early rave scene" didn't develop in a vacuum.

    Quote Originally Posted by hamarplazt View Post
    Anyway, that berlin minimal stuff has always been a pretty small part of the overall german scene - just like with detroit purists in the UK. The real interesting things happended in the much more rave related areas. Gabber, trance, the mayday events, and, yes, much acid too.
    I call bullshit on your claim that all the "real interesting" things happened in gabber, trance, acid, etc. That argument doesn't even really make sense, it's not as if trance and mnml happened in two separate hermetically sealed rooms and never the twain shall meet. What about a guy like Wolfgang Voight who's made both acid records and Basic Channel-influenced minimal? Or the whole PCP/The Mover/Mescalinum United thing? Even Oliver Lieb, of whom I'm a massive fan, has a couple of mnml releases in his back catalogue.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    The point isn't that Germany wouldn't have an electronic music scene. Look, Detroit techno isn't purely a Detroit creation, right? I mean, it's E2-E4 + Funakdelic + Yellow Magic Orchestra + a ton of other stuff. Likewise, German techno isn't purely German. That "early rave scene" didn't develop in a vacuum.
    I agree with this, sure. I never said it developed in a vacuum. My point was that detroit techno wasn't an indispensable part of what the german techno scene became overall. You certainly couldn't remove an impact from american house and acid generally.

    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    I call bullshit on your claim that all the "real interesting" things happened in gabber, trance, acid, etc. That argument doesn't even really make sense, it's not as if trance and mnml happened in two separate hermetically sealed rooms and never the twain shall meet. What about a guy like Wolfgang Voight who's made both acid records and Basic Channel-influenced minimal? Or the whole PCP/The Mover/Mescalinum United thing? Even Oliver Lieb, of whom I'm a massive fan, has a couple of mnml releases in his back catalogue.
    Again, I never said those things happened separately, just that the detroit techno component wasn't crucial for most of it. Minimalism doesn't have to come from detroit either, a lot of acid house was totally minimal too. What someone find interesting could always be debated of course, but the more eager a scene is to pledge allegience to some sacred ancestor, the less it will develop something new (what I'd call "interesting") it seems to me.

    Good to see someone else being into Lieb, btw!

  4. #34
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    I thought Lieb was one of those universally respected producers..

  5. #35
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    Big yay to Padraig for posting Didgeredoo, hadn't noticed that before. That track always makes me think of a big crowd raving with the lights switched off, interspersed with a swarm of angry bees buzzing down a street.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamarplazt View Post
    Actually, I once asked a guy involved in the early germanic rave scene (the part taking place in denmark, but still the same music involved) about if they were aware of any detroit stuff at all, and he mentioned Inner City as the onle thing they had ever heard about. And then said, "but that was because it was just chart pop, something you heard at disco clubs, not what we would consider techno at all!"
    Oh dear, Disco-Techno Segregation Syndrome.

    Sux 2 b that guy.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamarplazt View Post
    What someone find interesting could always be debated of course, but the more eager a scene is to pledge allegience to some sacred ancestor, the less it will develop something new (what I'd call "interesting") it seems to me.
    That's a point I can agree with. Let me be clear too that while I love a ton of Detroit techno and have enormous respect for Atkins, Carl Craig, Mike Banks, etc. (as well as all the deep house guys), I think that museum curator mentality about "Detroit techno" is totally lame and does a disservice both to the many pioneers of electronic music from other places and to the Detroit producers themselves.


    Quote Originally Posted by hamarplazt View Post
    Good to see someone else being into Lieb, btw!
    Oh yeah, he's on my short list of genius producers with Craig, Photek, Wiley, etc. I'm not much for trance but he's the major exception, which I'd guess is the case for a lot of people.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ PIMP View Post
    Oh dear, Disco-Techno Segregation Syndrome.

    Sux 2 b that guy.
    That guy was actually Lasse Steen, who made countless hardcore acid records that really belongs in this thread I think. The funny thing is that now he's producing completely populist dance/trance, so his discophobia is certainly over. The point, though, was that for him techno startet with the industrial/ebm-end of things.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    That's a point I can agree with. Let me be clear too that while I love a ton of Detroit techno and have enormous respect for Atkins, Carl Craig, Mike Banks, etc. (as well as all the deep house guys), I think that museum curator mentality about "Detroit techno" is totally lame and does a disservice both to the many pioneers of electronic music from other places and to the Detroit producers themselves.
    Totally with you here. It's not that the detroit producers didn't make good music or don't deserve their place in electronic music history, it's those people who have devoted their life to defending the "faith" and pushing their own narrow view of that history that annoys me.

    Something like the rough guide to techno is a prime example, filled to the brink with every minor detroit producer they can find - or minor detroit techno producers from all of the world for that matter - while not even mentioning people like Marc Acardipane or Martin Damm or Like A Tim. It's also the book that gave me the impression that Oliver Lieb is generally not respected, they see him as some kind of cheap and cheesy frankfurt trance merchant, but maybe its just them? I certainly hope so, he have made so much great and unique stuff.

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    Good to see Heckmann getting some credit. He have made, what, hundreds of records, many of them acid, and many of them really really great.

  11. #41
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    yeah, the EBM thing still crops up every so often in euro house/techno. i quite like that tangent myself when it's done right, it's so ultimately white.

    e.g. thinking of stuff like the franz & shape mix of autobody by perspects.

    sorry bout the motion i hope you didn't mind
    the body is in motion at the mercy of a mind
    autobody that surrounds you
    autobody that surrounds you
    the body that defines you
    is the body that designs you


    --

    or the hacker, some of his tracks like life/death have a bit of EBM to them...

  12. #42
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    went and played catch-up with lieb a couple of years back and was quite surprised, all the stuff he was doing at that point was crunchy as anything. not a lot about it that was "nice" at all.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ PIMP View Post
    went and played catch-up with lieb a couple of years back and was quite surprised, all the stuff he was doing at that point was crunchy as anything. not a lot about it that was "nice" at all.
    Not much of it was ever really "nice" though, and that's probably what those guys making the rough guide had a problem with. His early records were so hyperactive and crazy and full of ideas and melodies and mad rhythms and whoosy cosmic noises. Sci fi stuff in a really pulpy way. That's what I love about it. The Spy vs. Spice album is probably my favorite, though. Strange strange stuff.

  14. #44
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    this is a really interesting thread.
    some thoughts:
    got to mention belgium as well, that place and some of the records were really important in setting the scene for hardcore, alot of those records were really 'hard' before hardcore came about and sonically filtered into hardcore. R and s - originally an 80's new beat label was a hub as well, tracks like dominator were massive with the hardcore kids, also beltram. Mover's obvious big influence was 'art of stalking' by suburban knight - really obviously, and he was a frankfurt kid out on r and s.
    also there was the detroit/chicago crossover in eindhoven holland with labels like djax who released hard acid alongside chicago and detroit stuff, and eevolute too which crossed over with detroit and all.
    then gabber was rotterdam which seemed to be creating its own hardcore continuum and has several things going on even today, a big drum and bass scene and the clone records crew.
    Last edited by mms; 04-02-2009 at 09:21 PM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamarplazt View Post
    Not much of it was ever really "nice" though, and that's probably what those guys making the rough guide had a problem with. His early records were so hyperactive and crazy and full of ideas and melodies and mad rhythms and whoosy cosmic noises. Sci fi stuff in a really pulpy way.
    i guess when i think of lieb i more think of those anthemic numbers he did, paragliders etc.

    thoiugh my fave thing from that period was the album he did as The Ambush. i bet that would sound pretty funny about now... in a good way, hopefully.

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