G20

crackerjack

Well-known member
Victory for the massed ranks of Dissensus chatterati

Britain's police watchdog is considering removing the police from the investigation into the death of Ian Tomlinson during last week's G20 protests and carrying out its own inquiry, the Guardian has learned.

Earlier this week, the Independent Police Complaints Commission appointed the City of London force to investigate the incident, despite its officers having been involved in policing the protest. The IPCC could have decided to use its own independent investigators.

Video obtained by the Guardian of the minutes before Tomlinson's death clearly shows officers from the City of London force standing near the officer who attacked the newspaper seller. That officer is believed to be from the Metropolitan force.

The IPCC is expected to make a fresh announcement today about the investigation.
 
D

droid

Guest
Horray. Now we can have a dodgy inquiry followed by an even dodgier inquest, instruct the jury to declare an open verdict, and let the cops away with some fines on 'health and Safety' grounds...

Nice!
 

mms

sometimes
surely it's only murder if there was intention to kill or cause gbh?
if they cracked him over the head it's murder.
cos that's intention to cause gbh.
the other problem with it will be finding out who these fuckers are cos they've taken off their police identity numbers by the looks of it, ( as was reported elsewhere in the 'going to be very violent' protest), to do a bit of shit kicking for fun i assume.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
More allegations of police brutaility from wild-eyed anarchist newspaper.

I was surprised at the time that people with press cards weren;'t allowed to leave the cordon. Looks like that might be coming back to the Met very hard. The change in tone since the emergence of this video - which is no Rodney King, however bad - is pretty drastic.



MMS
There are reports that many of those in the video have come forward to the IPCC, but not the guy who pushed and hit him.
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
surely it's only murder if there was intention to kill or cause gbh?
if they cracked him over the head it's murder.
cos that's intention to cause gbh.
the other problem with it will be finding out who these fuckers are cos they've taken off their police identity numbers by the looks of it, ( as was reported elsewhere in the 'going to be very violent' protest), to do a bit of shit kicking for fun i assume.

If the policeman's actions are linked to his death, then it's murder, because you 'take the victim as you find them'. Manslaughter would be something reckless or daft that resulted in someone's death. If you hit someone and they die and the death is directly attributable to the action, then it's murder. The moot point would be whether the guy was going to die anyway. I doubt that somehow.

I'm not an expert though but that's what I was told by a law person.
 

elgato

I just dont know
a second video of the key assault, which clearly shows the police taking a baton to the back of his legs before barging him to the ground

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2009/apr/08/g20-police-assault-ian-tomlinson-video

i'm not sure about the murder issue, last time i knew the intention (mens rea) had to be GBH or more for it to be murder, but that may have changed in the last couple of years, these things can sometimes shift quickly

the eggshell skull concept ('take them as you find them'), i believe, relates to causation, distinct from the mens rea element. intention is the distinguishing factor between manslaughter and murder.

and in this context to prove intention of either you'd have to prove that the officer foresaw either GBH or death as a virtually certain consequence (and the test is subjective - whether the individual foresaw that, not a 'reasonable man' etc)

just seen that the officer handed himself in last night, but no arrest or suspension has been made... bullshit

i wonder how the criminal law elements relate to the Public Order Act / 'reasonable force' etc, i have no idea how that comes in. i mean it would have to be something pretty spectacular and shocking to allow that kind of exercise of force without criminal accountability
 
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UFO over easy

online mahjong
more here - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/14/ian-tomlinson-assault-film-ipcc

The Independent Police Complaints Commission said today that Nick Hardwick had been mistaken when he said there were no security cameras around Royal Exchange Passage, the area where a policeman was shown in private video footage striking Tomlinson with a baton and pushing him to the ground.

Hardwick said on Thursday there was no CCTV evidence of alleged police assaults on Tomlinson. "We don't have CCTV footage of the incident," he told Channel 4 news. "There is no CCTV footage – there were no cameras in the locations where he was assaulted."

However, at 10.30am, after pictures were published showing cameras in the area, the IPCC changed its stance. "At this point, Mr Hardwick believed that he was correct in this assertion – we now know this may not be accurate," the IPCC said in a statement. "There are cameras in the surrounding area."

The IPCC would not comment on why, almost two weeks after Tomlinson's death and one week after it said its investigators had pieced together his last moments by looking at "many hours of CCTV", Hardwick had been mistaken about the locations of cameras.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
HMIC invited to review policing tactics
In light of the G20 event Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson has invited Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Constabulary, Denis O'Connor, to conduct a review of related public order policing tactics.

[...]

"One matter that I also want to make clear is that uniformed police officers should be identifiable at all times by their shoulder identification numbers. The public has a right to be able to identify any uniformed officer whilst performing their duty. We must ensure this is always the case."

http://cms.met.police.uk/news/polic...ation/hmic_invited_to_review_policing_tactics
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
HMIC invited to review policing tactics
In light of the G20 event Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson has invited Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Constabulary, Denis O'Connor, to conduct a review of related public order policing tactics.

[...]

"One matter that I also want to make clear is that uniformed police officers should be identifiable at all times by their shoulder identification numbers. The public has a right to be able to identify any uniformed officer whilst performing their duty. We must ensure this is always the case."

http://cms.met.police.uk/news/polic...ation/hmic_invited_to_review_policing_tactics

Thanks John.

Once again media taking self-serving police briefing at face value.

That said, it's been illuminating watching the majority of the media switch tack so fast. the police made a massive tactical blunder by (ironically) being so even-handed in their kettling.

People with press cards aren't used to being detained against their will. And hitting innocent people on camera doesn't help.
 
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