Books with life-changing qualities

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
You assume it was bragging but I was simply making a point about self-improvement.

oh yes clearly that's the logical assumption to have made. so many people go around talking about how fantastic they are in bed in order to make points about self-improvement.

The idea that *everyone else* is living in some kind of relationship Aqe of Aquarius is hilarious and the concept that 'pick-up artists' are somehow dragging the world down is massively overprivileging how people actually live and think in the world today. PUAs didn't invent nightclubs or celebrity culture - they just live in that world, some with a very low degree of alienation which to a certain extent even disturbs me. But I don't jump from a slightly icky feeling in the stomach to making all sorts of ridiculous assertions.

no one but you has expressed that idea. it is a strawman. nor do I blame anyone for the waters in which they swim. on the other hand it's absurd to say "look, this is grotesque - but I didn't create it - I just take advantage of it".

also, there's nothing new about self-proclaimed "pick-up artists"; it's merely the same old same old, a bunch of skeezy dudes trying to figure out more efficient ways to scam on chicks, dressed up with silly acronyms & terminology.

No. And fuck you. There's something much more complex going on, but you're cleary incapable of acting sensibly so what's the point?

ouch. a bit touchy aren't we? right, something more complex than dudes trying to get laid. & what might that be? don't pull a copout like "what's the point". surely even if I'm too daft and/or insensible to suss it out there are other people who'd love to hear you explain exactly what that much more complex something is?

Or maybe if you keep using terms like 'creepy' and 'sad', you might feel better about yourself. Or not, as is actually more likely.

ah clever one man, casting aspersions on my self-esteem & all. perhaps tho it would be simpler if you could just explain why terms like "creepy" & "sad", especially the latter, are inaccurate?
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
There are also guys who like pulling and thus choose to party with guys who are also quite focused on this aspect of clubbing. Is that a social issue? Or just a preference? When did you guys turn so conservative? Was Leicester Square full of shamanic dance spaces prior to 2003?

Not one of you would dare make similar comments about gay nightclubs.

no way. don't try to make this about prudishness or some kind of PC Puritanism. the issue isn't promiscuity or sex clubs or whatever, it's how people treat each other. & that you try to equate being (or trying to be) a "pick-up artist" with sexual preference is ridiculous & mildly offensive.

anyway if there is some wonderful, idyllic community of "pick-up artists" out there then why don't you, as DannyL suggested, toss out some links? I very much doubt it but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
there's nothing new about self-proclaimed "pick-up artists"; it's merely the same old same old, a bunch of skeezy dudes trying to figure out more efficient ways to scam on chicks, dressed up with silly acronyms & terminology

This is kind of what I felt like after reading that site above. A couple of interesting insights, a lot of quite bad pop-psychology and loads of stating the obvious dressed up as something new. i.e go up and talk to women, be relaxed. Couldn't help but think it reinforces a basic sexism.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
The more I read of this stuff the more I agree with what Padraig wrote above - I just found a video of two dickheads talking about a girl in a college library as "the target" as one got him self ready to apprach her. How do you think she'd feel if she knew she was being videoed? Seems to me to create the same predatory mentality that ends up in rape and sexual assault.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Some guys are apparently wearing fedora hats though, it's called "peacocking". Next time I see a guy with one on, I'll ask him if that's what he's doing.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Even though you will see some bizarre talk on forums, I think this is mostly bravado and an inability to find the right language to express things - I really think that it rarely truly represents the true feelings of the speaker.

That’s just putting a sympathetic spin on a misogyny surely. They were bragging about sex to other guys on the internet but “they really didn’t mean it” - come on. Guys in male company will often encourage each other into excesses of all sorts. That’s why I find the whole PUA thing really creepy – what the fuck are you going to learn from another guy, especially when it’s put in the context of learning to be a “pick up artist”

Also, to what extent does awareness that one is playing a game entail a duty to not play it? What if the woman knows she is playing a game? What if she wants to play? What if she wants, in effect, to be manipulated?

But what if she doesn’t? Using all these bullshit techniques is entirely predicated on someone not knowing what you're up to, oherwise it wouldn't work would it? That's a totally different ball game to a bit of flirtation.

Also, when I mentioned feminism you said this:
I learnt how to help women to squirt and have extended orgasms because of 'the community' and gave quite a few of both.

I'm no expert but I might question your grasp of the fine points of feminism. I might get this quote embroidered round the rim of my fedora though.
 
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Slothrop

Tight but Polite
glad you enjoyed it mate. of course anyone feels the need to go on a message board & brag about his orgasm-giving prowess & his romps at exclusive sex clubs with hot foreigners is to be taken at face value.

your whole line is one vast, utterly creepy slippery slope, beginning with the premise of objectifying women as objects which are to be pursued & captured, rather than as people. I also find your references to a "community" to be laughable, or perhaps sad as it's merely another example of how meaningless the word "community" has become.

and you're goddamn right grow up. perhaps if more dudes in your "community" could act like adults they wouldn't need to resort to this sort of loathsome nonsense to engage with women.
So are you 'negging' on him now?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I hope his username is derived from his chat-up like: "So, have you come lately?".

We got into the sex club because my ladyfriend's parents are members.

Oh PLEASE tell me all four of you go together, that would be just perfect. Do you give each other tips? Hold up score cards? "Nice fingering action, son, but your cunnilingus is a little sloppy - here, let me show you..."
 

vimothy

yurp
I think most of the shit I do is on the off chance that women will sleep with me because of it. I'm not sure where that puts me on this debate...
 

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
I completely agree with everything comelately has said so far and the offence has a suspicious air of sexual and romantic failure and resentment to it.

The idea that seducing a girl into sleeping with you is "manipulation" is totally off, and you'd be hard pressed to find girls who agree with that statement. Unless of course you dropped the three magic words and promised to stay with her forever. That's manipulation.

They call it a game because it's competitive and above all it is fun. For both parties. Like comelately said, this is part of the reason that the singles bar and club culture exists.

And what is wrong with bragging about someone you hooked up with? Do I live on another planet or something? Sometimes this forum gets too stuffy for its own good.
 
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STN

sou'wester
I think most of the shit I do is on the off chance that women will sleep with me because of it. I'm not sure where that puts me on this debate...

including posting on here? i think you're on a hiding to nothing with that, i'm afraid.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
i can see valid points on both sides.

womanizing can of course become objectifying and misogynistic, and become another expression of the age old fear of women. this pick-up "culture" clearly crosses the line often. but women objectify men all the time as well (i have no problems when they objectify me)

the "game" exists in a fucked up setting where sex and intimacy are artificially rare commodities. hate the socio-political context, not the game.

if you are single you play the game, whether you admit it, or are good at it, or not. in fact pretending like you are not playing is sometimes an excellent strategy.

what books like this can do is actually cheat and subvert the system which is in place, and bypass all the classist and superficial rules based on appearances that society imposes. i do not believe in "out of my league", whether you are rich or good looking or not -- it's not about those things, and that is one of the messages of these books.
 
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Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
i can see valid points on both sides.

womanizing can of course become objectifying and misogynistic, and become another expression of the age old fear of women. this pick-up "culture" clearly crosses the line often. but women objectify men all the time as well (i have no problems when they objectify me)

the "game" exists in a fucked up setting where sex and intimacy are artificially rare commodities. hate the socio-political context, not the game.

if you are single you play the game, whether you admit it, or are good at it, or not. in fact pretending like you are not playing is sometimes an excellent strategy.

what books like this can do is actually cheat and subvert the system which is in place, and bypass all the classist and superficial rules based on appearances that society imposes. i do not believe in "out of my league", whether you are rich or good looking or not -- it's not about those things, and that is one of the messages of these books.

Yeah, actually I broadly agree with that.
 
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