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Thread: Addiction

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    And of course the normalisation of brutality, humiliation and physical violence against women... things may have been bad in Dworkin's time, but she'd shit a brick if she saw some of the stuff that goes on in 'mainstream' porn these days.
    You clearly haven't seen the type of porn where the woman dons high heels and crushes her male counterpart's ballbags underfoot.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Boy View Post
    You clearly haven't seen the type of porn where the woman dons high heels and crushes her male counterpart's ballbags underfoot.
    is there a kind of implication in this sort of thing though, that the reason it's (apparently) so dirty and arousing is because the idea of a woman being in control of a man is perverse in itself?

    i dunno, i've never seen it. I tend to stick to the 'japanese schoolgirl getting gangraped on the subway' kinda porn.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BareBones View Post
    is there a kind of implication in this sort of thing though, that the reason it's (apparently) so dirty and arousing is because the idea of a woman being in control of a man is perverse in itself?
    That is a bit of a circular argument. I would go as far to say that it is likely the ball-crushing that out-perverts the woman in control bit. It is very possible the idea of porn involving a woman in control is erotic to men who like a woman in control because they find being in a submissive position erotic, not so different from women who like being in the same position (though obv. minus ballmashing). Not because the idea is just so ridi-cu-larse!

    Though I find discussion of gender and race almost always devolves into oppression being an absolute and constant thing, whether latent or conscious, which I don't think is the case at all. See thread about pick-up artists for an example.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Boy View Post
    You clearly haven't seen the type of porn where the woman dons high heels and crushes her male counterpart's ballbags underfoot.
    How do you know!

    Theres always been subcultures - though again, this is a woman fulfilling a male fantasy of self-abuse - see also scrotum and penile expanding injections...

    What I'm talking about is gang rape masquerading as group sex, 'choking', violent anal sex... all things that have become standard fare in the world of porn.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    I was more meaning the excess/misuse of such things (eg downloading music than one never gets round to listening to, watching TV shows that you know are shit and feeling unhappy with yourself afterwards, watching porn and realising you weren't really feeling that sexual anyways).

    I am also particularly interested in the continual need to escape geographically from oneself/one's 'problems' (which may in fact be a euphemism for 'oneself'), as has been capitalised on hugely by the holiday/travel industry, and is so painfully obvious in the incessant 'why not?' nihilism of (my own) British culture.
    I think though that if you're interested in escape, you can't just look at those things which are widely considered to be harmful when abused. So much of what we're sold is based in part on the idea of 'getting away from it all', whether it's cheap flights, sex or gallery membership. Advertising for all of those things plays on insecurity and feelings of inadequacy, and they could all be seen as a distraction from first order desire, even if they're not physically or emotionally harmful in the short term.

    There's also more to be said on orders of desire... I would have thought that any definition of addiction which bases itself on that would have to go some way to explaining how those orders can be distinguished.
    Last edited by UFO over easy; 21-04-2009 at 09:28 PM.

  6. #21

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    And I was talking about the ubiquity of porn.

  7. #22

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    Pornography has killed sex.

  8. #23
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    Interesting topic. But:

    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    the incessant 'why not?' nihilism of (my own) British culture.
    I feel that this is already somewhat outdated.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by craner View Post
    Pornography has killed sex.
    I don't believe this.

  10. #25
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    [.... never mind.....]
    Last edited by Tentative Andy; 24-04-2009 at 11:13 AM. Reason: I'm a twat

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    ....and, more controversially perhaps, romantic love as a panacea.
    I am fiending for a snuggle right now.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tentative Andy View Post
    Interesting topic. But:



    I feel that this is already somewhat outdated.
    Quite the contrary, I think. I was having this exact conversation with some German people on saturday (who expressed horror/amsuement at what passes for an ordinary Saturday night's consumption here), and my housemate (who doesn't know the city) independently commented on how less 'up for it' Paris was when he visited a tthe weekend (and he went to the good places).

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by swears View Post
    I am fiending for a snuggle right now.
    but you're just buying into the latter-day Western fiction of romantic love!

    Nah, me too.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    Quite the contrary, I think. I was having this exact conversation with some German people on saturday (who expressed horror/amsuement at what passes for an ordinary Saturday night's consumption here), and my housemate (who doesn't know the city) independently commented on how less 'up for it' Paris was when he visited a tthe weekend (and he went to the good places).
    Well if you're talking just about booze-fuelled madness then you might be right, that's been engrained in our culture for a very long time and isn't something that people are going to be able to let go of easily. Even with that though, and just based on what I've noticed of the behaviour of myself and my group of friends, I reckon people are starting to move into this pattern where, consciously or not, they save up for quite a while for a big night and then go on a total blow-out. That's in itself different from the routinised sort of thing where people were getting fucked up every weekend or even every of couple of nights, as you were talking about in the initial posts. Not sure if it's better or worse, but it is different.

    In general though, I don't think you can overlook the fact that people just don't have much money right now. For levels of consumption to reach the kind of addictive, life-consuming levels that we are considering, the majority of the population must have either (a) large ammounts of disposable income or (b) ready access to credit which can stand in for actual wealth. Neither of these are widely available at the moment, so people are being forced to adopt a more basic, survivalist approach to their day to day lives. Around my neighbourhood, it seems that every business that is offering inessential and/or over-provided services is closing down - cafes, pubs, expensive shops etc. And this is far from a poor area by any means, I'm sure it's worse elsewhere.
    Sorry if this is derailing the topic slightly, but I felt it was worth saying.
    Last edited by Tentative Andy; 21-04-2009 at 11:33 PM. Reason: Spelling madness

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    I've become increasingly interested of late in the concept of addiction, construed widely,where addiction is (roughly speaking) repeatedly acting in a way that only fulfils one's first-order desires rather than second- or third-order, and so results in repeatedly doing things that one doesn't really want to do (although, in one sense, one does 'want' to, of course).

    So, aside from the extremely obvious (heroin, cigarettes, extreme alcohol intake), I woudl suggest that modern life bombards us with possible addictions, to the point that it confuses and disorients so many people from what they really want that it leads to mass low-level unhappiness/search for 'meaning'.

    So these addictions would be connected to...the internet, 'casual' sex, facebook/email/twitter, TV, 'fun' as a catch-all, uninterrogable excuse-word for flight from life, TV, dieting, low-level 'going down the pub most nights' alcoholism, holidaying to 'escape' or 'chill out'....and, more controversially perhaps, romantic love as a panacea.

    Also, who has written well on this kind of thing?
    feeling this entire angle. in fact i've been meaning to make the EXACT SAME post for months now. i really think it would have come out almost identical.

    the commodification of the most basic human/animal needs is only possible by taking away that which truly satisfies them, and replace with substitutes which only feel good for a short period, before more is needed.

    and some of these "things which truly satisfy basic human needs" which are taken away from us are:

    real intimacy
    connectedness
    extended family
    community (knowing your neighbors for one thing)
    sense of belonging
    sense of connected to one's "work"
    sense of genuine "play"

    etc. etc.

    i really think the nuclear family is at the bottom of this loss/lack, and is simply not a good unit/principle of social organization. children should not be brought up by only 2 adults, but by many of different ages. in our times children grow up with loneliness and lack of connection, and we think it's "natural"...

    damn i can go on and on.
    Quote Originally Posted by UFO over easy View Post
    There's also more to be said on orders of desire... I would have thought that any definition of addiction which bases itself on that would have to go some way to explaining how those orders can be distinguished.
    i second this. someone link to or articulate what these orders constitute?

    _________________________________

    also, i have emailed our long time friend, you know the one i was fighting with, and asked her to come back. sure would make this already interesting topic even more interesting... lets hope she does.

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