scottdisco
rip this joint please
NuLab's social authoritarianism may be undone slightly by an incoming Tory govt
the cops
- Thread starter josef k.
- Start date
crackerjack
Well-known member
What, you think police actions are completely unrelated to the powers at their disposal?
Well exactly they are being politicised / used as a political force.
You know some of these guys aren't necessarily that sophisticated in terms where they get their information from and of course it's very easy to become part of a prevalent culture in an organisation, it's totally natural.
The example I always think of is working in retail. Anyone who's worked in retail or with a team that works with 'the public' in that way knows the way a certain us / them attitude can develop. So you have to be very careful in managing the way those perceptions arise, this is down to training. It doesn't matter so much with shop staff taking the piss out of custies but sometimes it's more important.
You saw the footage of the search of a climate camp protestors bedroom that was taken by his father where the police where searching for material of a 'political nature'. There seemed very little awareness on the part of that policeman what that actually meant and the implications of it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/video/2009/apr/19/police-activism
Did I say that?What, you think police actions are completely unrelated to the powers at their disposal?
No, you said it was 'dead simple', they will use whatever powers given them. i.e. that's all it is.
I think I see something else at work. It's about attitude and culture and understanding of roles.
crackerjack
Well-known member
OK, but you seemed to be implying that this was all about some institutional group think. But that has always been a factor in determining police/public relations, maybe exarcebated in recent years by anti-terror scaremongering, but recent police heavy-handedness has hardly been directed solely against Muslims.
I think govt directives and laws are more important - there was a slow reduction in police freedom to sidestep the law in the wake of the wave of wrongful convictions, going over the top during Thatcher's war on unions, Stephen Lawrence etc. That hasn't been entirely undone, but lately Nu-Lab has been a bit cannier in its methods of enablement.
all my 'brown' friends, all of them a few years ago at least, any friend who's north african or looks arabic, including an italian friend, they've all been searched several times.
No that's right, not just muslims, but the mindset is one of fear and defensiveness generally, and there is this dreadful obscene conflation of political activism and all sorts of things with terrorism. You know that, this is the worst thing and that it's not obvious to police that they are being used. It should be obvious.
What do you mean sidestep the law? This is the thing, you seem to think 'the police' will inherently just try and get away with whatever they can if not reigned in. The question is why? What would they be trying to achieve? I don't think that's necessarily the case but if it is so then that's an institutional problem that needs to be tackled.
Of course these things are not unrelated, there is surely a trickle down or even a direct influence of govt. directive to police attitudes but there must be clarity about the role of the organisation so this isn't so much of an issue.
crackerjack
Well-known member
I'd agree to a small extent, significantly less than you believe, though.
Beating confessions out of suspects, for instance.
It makes their job easier, reduces crime (they might believe), produces rewards for the relevant hierarchy.
matt b
Indexing all opinion
crackerjack
Well-known member
john eden
male pale and stale
Stopped, but not searched:
http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2007/12/have-you-met-the-met/
The cops were searching people in Clapton, Hackney a few weeks back and it looked like they had a quota thing going on. First guyI saw was a black kid with a hoodie. Then on my way back 'round they were searching a middle aged white commuter in a suit.
http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2007/12/have-you-met-the-met/
The cops were searching people in Clapton, Hackney a few weeks back and it looked like they had a quota thing going on. First guyI saw was a black kid with a hoodie. Then on my way back 'round they were searching a middle aged white commuter in a suit.
matt b
Indexing all opinion
Sorry not sure what you mean.
You'd agree with what significantly less than you think I believe?
You'd think they'd rather get away with eating bagels and pastries.
crackerjack
Well-known member
I mean the phenomenon you've been outlining in your last several posts is an influence, but significantly less of one than you appear to believe.
scottdisco
rip this joint please
great blog post John!
some very sobering feedback from your own - or that of friends wrt mms, very depressing - experiences.
Matt eek :slanted:
my pals were stopped under anti-terror, and not searched (sorry, should have clarified), at least not searched IIRC. one of them didn't mind it (he was on the South Bank quite late one night); the other bloody well did (in the West Country IIRC).
Amnesty UK, 17 October 2006
some very sobering feedback from your own - or that of friends wrt mms, very depressing - experiences.
Matt eek :slanted:
my pals were stopped under anti-terror, and not searched (sorry, should have clarified), at least not searched IIRC. one of them didn't mind it (he was on the South Bank quite late one night); the other bloody well did (in the West Country IIRC).
Amnesty UK, 17 October 2006
The idea that the police should be randomly stopping and searching people - anyone - with no probable cause is totally crazy, and is the symptom of a police state.
john eden
male pale and stale
Quite. But I don't think it's anything new.
D
droid
Guest
None of this is anything new really is it? Just more sophisticated versions of stuff that's been going on for decades.