the cops

crackerjack

Well-known member

It is, but I did choke on the idea that he'd always had faith in the police until the vdeo of Tomlinson and the raid on Green.

Doesn't he remember the Miners Strike or the SPG and Blair Peech? He's meant to be a fucking historian. Seems to me there's been a gradual trade-off between police and politicians in the last 10-15 years - you reduce visible brutality, we'll give you more restrictive powers.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
It's a good summary for Guardian readers but it does reinforce the gulf between people who have witnessed police violence and those who haven't.

I first saw violent cops at a demonstration about student fees about 20 years ago and in that time I've not been able to discuss that and numerous other examples with my parents without them completely losing it and us shouting at each other.

I'm not convinced the footage from the G20 protests will change their minds either but at least there is now documentary evidence so that it doesn't look like it's all being made up by political extremists who hate the police.

It's possible the media will really take this on board which could be interesting (the anniversaries of the Miners Strike, Hillsborough and Blair Peach providing a grime but journalistically useful backdrop).

This is quite an interesting development - http://fitwatch.blogspot.com/ - anarchists monitoring the Forward Intelligence Team - cops who police demonstrations. Some quite heated exchanges in the comments boxes.
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
The opening sentence is laughable:

"There are two kinds of country: those in which ordinary, decent people are afraid of criminals but trust the police, and those in which ordinary, decent people are afraid of criminals and of the police."

The police have never thought of themselves as public servants, here to help the public- that's not what they were set up to do. Although it's obviously not his fault he's never had dealings with them.

I'm not convinced the footage from the G20 protests will change their minds either but at least there is now documentary evidence so that it doesn't look like it's all being made up by political extremists who hate the police.


This, alongside the brazen PR efforts, both before and since G20, is far more interesting- the police are suddenly aware that their actions can be viewed by others (those who aren't the sort to question the police, the media) and that these videos tell a completely different tale that traditionally wouldn't be told, as everyone would swallow the police's side of the story.

The media has been more qustioning than normal over the release of the 12 Pakistani suspects this week too.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
The opening sentence is laughable:

"There are two kinds of country: those in which ordinary, decent people are afraid of criminals but trust the police, and those in which ordinary, decent people are afraid of criminals and of the police."

The police have never thought of themselves as public servants, here to help the public- that's not what they were set up to do. Although it's obviously not his fault he's never had dealings with them.

To be fair, TGA has written extensively about the old soviet Bloc, particularly East Germany. I suspect he's weighing the British police against the Stasi.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
There is an interesting struggle ahead around who is allowed to photograph and film what.

Certainly the media were very keen to flag up those tourists who got pulled under anti-terrorist legislation for photographing a bus station or whatever it was. But on the other hand it would be relatively easy for the right wing media to portray fitwatch and their like as providing Fodder For Islamic Terrorists! On their way to the Olympics!

Speaking of which, that woman who got battoned at the Tomlinson memorial came out with a stroke of genius (presumably authored by Max Clifford) when she told the Daily Mail it was like being beaten by the Taliban.
 

elgato

I just dont know
the gulf between people who have witnessed police violence and those who haven't.

this has been a bit of a shock to me, i guess i always knew this gulf existed but it had never been drawn out in such an extreme way. the number of people to whom this affair seems to have been a genuine revelation has shocked me. i think also the type of people in some cases has surprised me - guess it just goes to show

the whole business with restricting photography surely is going to be a massive political loser given the weight of public opinion? there seems to be such widespread rejection of opaque public authority at the moment
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
the whole business with restricting photography surely is going to be a massive political loser given the weight of public opinion? there seems to be such widespread rejection of opaque public authority at the moment

The media may forget about soon enough. Just hype up some terror threats

Lots of good links here about the criminalisation of photographers:

http://memex.naughtons.org/archives/2009/04/10/7330

Not to mention the illegality of taking pics of the police
 

john eden

male pale and stale
The media may forget about soon enough. Just hype up some terror threats

Exactly "well yes it's inconvenient but you can't be too careful in the current climate, can you? I don't like it any more than you do, but The Very Serious Threat To Our Way Of Life means that the appropriate precautions must be taken. Of course I'm not saying that anyone who disagrees with me actually Supports Terrorism - far from it."
 

elgato

I just dont know
But only in the name of anti-terrorism, for which you can do pretty much what you like.

well to an extent, but the likes of the Mail and Telegraph have always loved stories about the 'nanny state' and 'snooping local authorities' and all that

but it is different because this is dependent on how far the anti-state sentiment overwhelms the general resentment / disdain for protesters as opposed to honest hard-working citizens

and matt b is probably right, these shifts are usually very transient and it wouldn't take much for things to return to normality in this regard
 
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elgato

I just dont know

haha

article-1170841-047D9B11000005DC-128_224x95.jpg


you've got to give it to them haven't you
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
I never knew putting your bin out early was taboo.

The parallels between UK today and 1930's Germany should frighten us all! Kick them all out now, with "extreme prejudice" if needed, before it is too late!

Peter North, Sutton, England, 17/4/2009 10:07




first they came for the wheelie bins...
 
Am I right in assuming the contempt shown to photographers is based on the assumption that people are taking pictures to assist terrorism. You dont have to be smart to realise that a photograph can't tell you anything that you can't see with your own eyes in one second. If anything photos are worse as they will be out of focus. secondly, would a terrorist really attract attention to themselves for such a shit form of intelligence gathering?
 
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