What is Manga?

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droid

Guest
Raijin was just ahead of its times really. Shonen Jump and Shojo beat both do very well in the states - though they are monthly - in Japan they come out every week.

The best way to view these mags is as the equivalent of weekly redtops or even newspapers. they're ubiquitous, cover every topic and niche interest under the sun (golf etiquette manga anyone?) are read by all and are discarded once read.

Graphic novels might be good value for money but to the average buyer £12 seems awful high when you can buy a 500 page book for 8.
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This is actually one of the reasons manga has become more popular than Western comics. You can spend $4 on a 40 page comic half filled with ads or you can spend $8 for a 250pg book with no ads - or ¢4 on a 150 page monthly mag...
 
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polystyle

Well-known member
owengriffiths said:
One of the things that interest me about Japan is those weekly phone book size comics. I'm sure that a lot of the strips inside are mediocre but how cool would that be, to casually read comics that were so cheap & plentiful it doesnt matter if they're shit. That would be a great development for the west if you could read one of those on the bus to work. Can't see it ever happening though. This American publication tried it but didnt have much success.

180px-Raijin_Comics_1_cover.jpg
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There are people who go through the trains just to pick up these large sized suckers to resell on the street ...
A whole tribe of 'pickers' , recycling as it were
 
A

Ach!

Turd on the Run
luka said:
what films are good?
fist of the north star?
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I like Fist of the North Star because it's ridiculous. There was a re-release where all the music was by Reinforced records, which is cool.

 
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polystyle

Well-known member
Anime

Running Man by Kajiwara, part of Neo Tokyo compilation from around '96 -'97,
aired on Liquid TV , that old MTV show that also has Aeon Flux.
Unrelated to King's The Running Man.
Racing till death as ghosts of races past come back to haunt a race driver ...
Neo Tokyo : some darker ruins, stray robotos, near future Tokyo

Also Memories- a 1995 Katsuhiro Otomo related omnibus he did some time after Akira
( with Magnetic Rose by Koji Morimoto who did Ken Ishii music video for JellyTones in the '90's /Stink Bomb /Cannon Fodder )

Some of you saw that Ken Ishii music video (Jelly Tones) I'm sure ... so very well done.
 
owengriffiths

owengriffiths

Owen
I read Memories a few years ago and thought parts of it were ridicuously poorly executed. Stuff that should never have made it to graphic novel format really.

I know I havent read much Manga, but for me the jury is still out there on it. My staple diet for comics is Vertigo/ Gaiman et al, and I just find the Japanese stuff so much less sophisticated, it's like comparing an adult book with a novel for young teens. The first thing you notice is the limited amount of text. That could be down to mistranslation but in general it does seem to be more focused on the visuals, particularly over the top facial expressions. For me it's a poor substitute for good storylines and witty dialogue.

Would youse lot recomend me any titles to change my perception of manga
 
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droid

Guest
owengriffiths said:
I read Memories a few years ago and thought parts of it were ridicuously poorly executed. Stuff that should never have made it to graphic novel format really.

I know I havent read much Manga, but for me the jury is still out there on it. My staple diet for comics is Vertigo/ Gaiman et al, and I just find the Japanese stuff so much less sophisticated, it's like comparing an adult book with a novel for young teens. The first thing you notice is the limited amount of text. That could be down to mistranslation but in general it does seem to be more focused on the visuals, particularly over the top facial expressions. For me it's a poor substitute for good storylines and witty dialogue.

Would youse lot recomend me any titles to change my perception of manga
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You're mad. Read the comics thread. Tons of recommendations in there.

Gaiman/vertigo is a terrible benchmark anyway IMO. Manga covers every topic under the sun with various levels of sophistication - unlike Western comix it doesn't have to be full of verbose gothic indy art-wank and teenage ideas of depth and sophistication in order to appear to others or convince itself that it's 'adult'. :D

Also - i think Desu is talking about 'memories' the film, which was OK. The comic is alright, but obv. not as good as Domu or Akira.
 
S

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
Akira is terrible and I've watched it twice now.
TETSUUUOOOOOOOOO
KANNEEEEEEEEEDDDA
TETSUUUUOOOOOOOO
KANNNEEEEEEEEDDDA

no thank you
 
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josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
I saw a Manga thing a while ago, I can't remember what it was called... it was two men and a women, and they had collars around their necks which would explode if they didn't carry out clandestine missions for the Japanese government. One of the guys had really cool hair. I think another one was bald.
 
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droid

Guest
Sick Boy said:
Akira is terrible and I've watched it twice now.
TETSUUUOOOOOOOOO
KANNEEEEEEEEEDDDA
TETSUUUUOOOOOOOO
KANNNEEEEEEEEDDDA

no thank you
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The film is OK, but the Manga is amazing.

EDIT: do I really need to mention that 'manga' refers specifically to printed comics? Cartoons are anime.
 
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droid

Guest
josef k. said:
I saw a Manga thing a while ago, I can't remember what it was called... it was two men and a women, and they had collars around their necks which would explode if they didn't carry out clandestine missions for the Japanese government. One of the guys had really cool hair. I think another one was bald.
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Battle Royale?
 
owengriffiths

owengriffiths

Owen
I still standby by Manga (or at least much of what I have read) is a bit too teen for my tastes. And Vertigo being a poor benchmark, are you crazy :). Sandman & Lucifer are just immense. Even when you take into account that much of Sandman is recycled mythology it is still a classic work. Not too sure what you mean by 'gothic indy art-wank'. Is that a reference to a goth readership and indy music? Personally I don't get the idea of the goth section in Forbidden Planet (with Sandman proudly on the shelf), though there does seem to be a high number of goth type customers in the first place. I'm getting off topic though as most Forbidden Planet customers are buying/window shopping toys and shit, very few comics get sold considering.

Sickboy: Akira, and in particular the B&W comic is good, though the film is ruined by an appalling dub. It's all about creating a fictional city really, which they did really well.

Josef K: Unlikely, but perhaps you are talking about Gantz. They didnt wear collars as such, more like skintight black suits.
 
D

droid

Guest
I dont think Sandman is immense at all. It has its moments, but in general its overly pretentious Moore-lite. By gothic, Im talking about the image of the work. By indy I mean independent comix. By art-wank I mean the horrenous pretention and mock-profoundity of nearly everything Gaiman touches. Lucifer I thought was pretty bad...

The benchcmark for anti-manga has to be Moore's pre-ABC stuff, though oddly enough the subject matter, structure and themes of 'From hell' (probably his best work IMO) is very manga like, despite the amount of text.

What manga have you read? There is stuff aimed at teens and there is more mature stuff. Unless you mean the overall cinematic 'style' of manga, in which case its a bit like saying films are 'teen' in comparison with documentaries.

Maybe Im just used to it, but I find the visual language of manga far more appealing than the standard superhero comic filled with speech bubbles or the standard indy comix with its bevies of captions and extrapolation...
 
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polystyle

Well-known member
Yeah, manga is manga and anime is anime- and often one leads to the other.
But comparing Japanese stuff and other countries stuff and saying one is 'better' ,
well the thread is about JAPANESE manga guys ...
It's a Japanese world that being discussed , like it or not.

I think I fell asleep during first screening of Akira too - didn't make any less impact as we watched inthe oversized seats of a Tokyo theatre and surrounded by fans,
the sound was hyped, variety of memorabilia lavished on tables outside, little things to take home.

Memories -the anime had the Otomo story ( if recalling correctly ) Cannon Fodder which seemed to point the way that his future anime' would take.
Kind of staged 'period' stylized pieces, that were technically better and better , but to me lost the power and punch that parts of Akira had.
But Otomo's the director so he can do what he wants, when he wants.
 
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josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
droid said:
Battle Royale?
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No... I think there were only three episodes, each one focusing on one of the characters... It was set in Neo-Tokyo, and characters could take elevators to space stations... it was an animated thing, not a comic. Again, the main character's hair was amazing.
 
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polystyle

Well-known member
josef k. said:
No... I think there were only three episodes, each one focusing on one of the characters... It was set in Neo-Tokyo, and characters could take elevators to space stations... it was an animated thing, not a comic. Again, the main character's hair was amazing.
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Hmmm, a quick ask around the house got no answer on this one JK ...
When you say- three episodes I thought it might be the Gondry / Leo Carax / Poon Ju (sp?)
"TOKYO !" movie.

Also - JK- no answer to your basic question about 'chans'
who are these 'chans' ?
 
J

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
polystyle desu said:
Hmmm, a quick ask around the house got no answer on this one JK ...
When you say- three episodes I thought it might be the Gondry / Leo Carax / Poon Ju (sp?)
"TOKYO !" movie.
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Admittedly, my information is not very helpful...

polystyle desu said:
Also - JK- no answer to your basic question about 'chans'
who are these 'chans' ?
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Among other things, they are the breeding grounds for the Taleban...

Information here.
 
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