How dodgy is soy?
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Isnt high soy consumption one of the reasons for the high life expectancy in Japan?
Fermented soy beans are one of the most vomit inducing breakfasts known to man.
Fermented soy beans are one of the most vomit inducing breakfasts known to man.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
this is exactly how I feel, at least. I started eating meat again about a yr ago but I absolutely don't touch dairy, feel pretty strongly about it. my reasoning is - pre-agriculture, humans ate mostly plants, nuts, some meat, hunter-gatherer stuff yunno. so I reckon our teeth & digestive systems are generally cut out for plants & meat. but not too much meat (& that's also not to say you can't have a perfectly healthy veg/vegan diet). and obviously babies drinking human breast milk (not cow milk dunno where you got that one) makes perfect sense. but milk from other animals? I think not. this is also borne out by the vast amount of people who are lactose intolerant (tho that varies widely by ethnicity).
I understand why people started drinking milk - greatly increases the amount of nourishment you can extract from the cow/goat/yak etc if you can milk it as well as eat it. but it's not as if magically our digestive systems adapted when we made the switch from nomadic hunter-gather to sedentary agriculture.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
nah you don't. vegetables, vegetables, vegetables. lean protein
the best diet, loosely speaking = a lot of vegetables (esp the green ones; broccoli, kale, chard etc), some fruit, protein from; fish, skinless chicken, egg whites, firm tofu, fats from; nuts (esp almonds) & nut butters, avocados, olive oil. get the majority of your carbs from vegetables, oatmeal is also a great & cheap source. actually most of this stuff can be gotten pretty cheap, depending on where you live - buying in bulk always helps.
dude no way I've spent an inordinate amount of time working in coffeeshops & it's really not that hard to make a decent soy latte/cappucino/whatever once you get the hang of it.
avoiding cow milk is easy enough... but what about all the amazing cheeses??
reminds me of an article about a restaurant in Sweden i think which started serving food prepared with human milk. it said there was no law about it, but as you can imagine lots are against.
and i am wearing this shirt right now as i type:
reminds me of an article about a restaurant in Sweden i think which started serving food prepared with human milk. it said there was no law about it, but as you can imagine lots are against.
and i am wearing this shirt right now as i type:
I haven't had this happen for a long time, I reckon they've got the formula working better or something. Usually I heat the soya then put in the coffee which has a had a little while to cool down a bit from boiling. Makes a really good lahtay.
Zhao do you mean to say Alpro isn't the top of the heap, I have to go and source some authentic ish now or I'm just an uncultured western sucka?
I like yer moobs, that soya's done wonders I have to say.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
nah fair nuff. I just mean's not really hard to do, just a bit of a bother. what really used to kill me was the incredibly complicated, time-consuming orders at 7:00 A.M. when there was a line backed up out the door, like some dude ordering 12 drinks for his whole office. or pushy jerks who'd stand at the espresso bar pointedly staring at you making their drink as if that would somehow make you do it faster.
OT but related - caffeine - now there's some dodgy business.
i can not find my favorite here in berlin, just the simple chinese soy drink which comes in a carton, no idea what it's called... delicious! but what i find in the asian shops are usually much tastier than western brands. the dark soy is great...
i can take a picture of my real pecs if you like...
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I dunno, it was kind of trendy to be really down on milk a while ago, wasn't it? In what way is it meant to be bad for you? I expect like most things it's a case of moderation - a reasonable intake is a good source of protein, calcium, vit D, but if you're downing gallons of full-cream every day then obviously that's a major intake of animal fats.
On the point about cow's milk being "designed" to be digested by four stomachs...is that strictly the case any more, though? What with cows having been selectively bred (read: genetically engineered, albeit very slowly) for many thousands of years for, amongst other things, producing milk for human consumption? Then there's the influence of what dairy cows are fed on. I wouldn't be surprised if the nutritional content of milk from modern dairies is quite different from what's produced by, say, wild buffalo.
Also, isn't it possible that the requisite enzymes to digest milk proteins/soy proteins have different prevalences in East Asia and in West Asia/Europe, for historical reasons?
I was just talking to a mate of mine the other day about the phrase "cow-juice", and we agreed that we both found it irrationally annoying. Possibly due to the appallingly irritating airline advert a few years ago with this American guy doing a whole "I just don't understand you Brits..." spiel, which included talk of "cow-juice".
scottdisco
rip this joint please
i admit i've asked for soy in my time at the counter but i wouldn't bother these days, Massrock is OTM re a nice enough latte w' it though.
OT but (vaguely related given Luka's location) was interested when Sbux said they were closing stores in countries that had a sophisticated coffee culture, including Oz.
that's why loads remain in the UK of course
Zhao porn to thread!
Padraig: i was in a London cafe the other day and there was a huge line and the girl about two behind me had had loads of time to think of what to order, but when asked appeared to have a total brain freeze.
"pushy jerks", heh-heh.
OT but (vaguely related given Luka's location) was interested when Sbux said they were closing stores in countries that had a sophisticated coffee culture, including Oz.
that's why loads remain in the UK of course
Zhao porn to thread!
Padraig: i was in a London cafe the other day and there was a huge line and the girl about two behind me had had loads of time to think of what to order, but when asked appeared to have a total brain freeze.
"pushy jerks", heh-heh.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
dunno if it was trendy. certainly not in the States, beyond the marginal trendiness of veganism in some circles (i.e. political punk types). if anything it's decidedly untrendy, random vegan celebrity aside. personally after the ~1000th blank stare I gave up trying to explain what I do & don't eat & why (only when asked, let me stress). I just say "lactose intolerant", worked when I was vegan & works now.
I freely admit that my suspicion of dairy is largely intuition (I also find it disgusting in a way I never did meat). tho, again, the vast #s of lactose intolerant people - & yes it's certainly true that different people in different parts of the world digest different things better for historical reasons. still, for all that other stuff - meat, plants & probably eggs - we're talking a much, much longer period of time. I also think to myself - what other mammal does this, drink the milk of a different species? tho that isn't necessarily a definitive reason why humans shouldn't do it. anyway, I'm not telling anyone else to stop eating dairy so I'm not trying to convince anyone why I'm "right".
I have no doubt that the milk of the modern dairy cow is far different from the milk of a buffalo (or more to the point, the milk of the cow's wild ancestors). full of rBGH, for one.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Hedgehogs!
Although it makes them ill. Idiots.Yeah, I think that's part of it - the perceived 'unnaturalness' of it.
Yeah, I was talking about the wild ancestors of today's domesticated cattle - I'm guessing buffalo are probably the closest thing.
as for non-dairy cheese, there is some aged hemp cheese that is pretty amazing...
re: why one wouldn't want to drink milk, my reasoning is partially that the cows in the US, for the most party, are fed disgusting levels of hormones & antibiotics, which then get concentrated in the milk, which you then ingest. the other reason being that no other mammal drinks milk past infancy, and i guess i take that as a sign.
re: why one wouldn't want to drink milk, my reasoning is partially that the cows in the US, for the most party, are fed disgusting levels of hormones & antibiotics, which then get concentrated in the milk, which you then ingest. the other reason being that no other mammal drinks milk past infancy, and i guess i take that as a sign.
scottdisco
rip this joint please
that's a very good point, from what little i understand of this. my American ex used to tell me this quite a bit and they knew a lot about these sorts of things.
apparently the milk of cows in the USA is full of all sorts of nasty rubbish that the EU has legislated away from European milk a long, long time ago. she looked wistfully on at British milk. (there's a phrase you don't hear every day.)
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
True. I assume organic milk is available in the US, though? In the wealthier parts of the bigger cities, at the very least?
Edit: no other mammal wears clothes either, but I don't use that as an excuse to walk around start bollock naked all the time.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I'm assuming from previous posts in other threads that you're a skeptic of the concept of "natural" vs. "unnatural". I don't think this is always an unhealthy skepticism. however, sometimes things are unnatural. I'm not saying that this is certainly one of those cases but it is definitely plausible - it isn't just folk wisdom or "common sense" or whatever. there's a fair bit of evidence that at least calls it into question.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
Edit: no other mammal wears clothes either, but I don't use that as an excuse to walk around start bollock naked all the time.
you're taking the piss but - there's a practical reason for that. we don't have fur or any kind of other covering sufficient to protect us from the elements. hence clothing is a necessity in some climates, all the other (social, cultural, etc) reasons aside.
dairy is not a necessity. there are no essential nutrients or vitamins in dairy that can't be gotten from another source. it has become a staple in some places but that is, as you say, due to historical rather than evolutionary reasons.
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