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Thread: How dodgy is soy?

  1. #1
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    Default How dodgy is soy?

    Articles like the one below make it sound like a very bad idea indeed for males especially to eat un-fermented soy products.

    Is it that bad? Is there scientific / nutritionist consensus?

    Would the dairy / meat industries perhaps have an interest in encouraging bad publicity around soy based foods?

    http://www.menshealth.com/cda/articl...___%26page%3D0

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    Quote Originally Posted by massrock View Post
    Articles like the one below make it sound like a very bad idea indeed for males especially to eat un-fermented soy products.

    Is it that bad? Is there scientific / nutritionist consensus?

    Would the dairy / meat industries perhaps have an interest in encouraging bad publicity around soy based foods?

    http://www.menshealth.com/cda/articl...___%26page%3D0
    There are lots of people who shouldn't drink or eat soy products because of soy estrogens. These are mostly people with pituitary problems or other very serious and grave illnesses.

    Healthy men probably have the least to worry about from it--the guy in that article was drinking an ungodly amount of soy milk. A moderate amount of soy product is not going to turn anyone who was born male into a "female". If it did every transexual in the world would have an IV line hooked up right now.

    Bear in mind there are hormones and antibiotics artificially injected into cows and therefore present in cow's milk, too. It's not as if you'll be avoiding hormones by limiting yourself to dairy products.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nomadthethird View Post
    Tthe guy in that article was drinking an ungodly amount of soy milk.
    I did note that, yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by massrock View Post
    Would the dairy / meat industries perhaps have an interest in encouraging bad publicity around soy based foods?
    would the oil and auto industry have an interest in encouraging bad publicity around electric cars?

    estrogen... low sperm count... it's all donkey kaka. just look at china: the entire nation is eating and breathing soy every day -- i WISH it caused low birth rates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zhao View Post
    would the oil and auto industry have an interest in encouraging bad publicity around electric cars?
    Yeah exactly. But I can't tell where research / articles have come from, who's funded them etc. I realise these things are in the interests of certain lobbies though.
    Quote Originally Posted by zhao View Post
    estrogen... low sperm count... it's all donkey kaka. just look at china: the entire nation is eating and breathing soy every day -- i WISH it caused low birth rates.
    There's some talk about a distinction between fermented and un-fermented soy. The suggestion being that most of the soy consumed in China and other places where it's been used for a long time tends to be fermented, which does not retain the same chemicals. That's what 'they' say anyway.

    Tofu is supposed to be OK, for instance.
    Last edited by massrock; 09-06-2009 at 06:24 PM.

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    I didn't read the article but I have a hard time taking the idea seriously. I was vegan for 10+ years (including my entire adolescence) & I still eat tempeh & tofu on the regular & I'm fine. tho I was never one of those vegans who goes in for vegan junk food - fake bacon & soy ice cream & whatever else - I like that stuff even less then "real" junk food.

    Soy isn't "bad". it's not "good" either. it's like anything - it is what it is. if you eat in excess then it's bad. if you eat in moderation in a balanced diet with other protein sources, (a lot of) vegetables, some fruit (& meat and/or dairy if you're into that kinda stuff) then it's fine.

    tofu is usually unfermented btw, tho there's also fermented tofu.

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    a lot of it has to do with the cultivation methods, for instance i would never eat soy products made in the U.S. (and i eat along the vegan/raw spectrum.)

    some research indicates that non-artisan, non-fermented, mass-produced, soy products can also suppress the immune system.

    there are so many other viable non-animal protein sources out there that aside from your occasional tempeh meatballs, there's no reason to fuck with soy.
    Last edited by pajbre; 09-06-2009 at 07:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pajbre View Post
    there are so many other viable non-animal protein sources out there that aside from your occasional tempeh meatballs, there's no reason to fuck with soy.
    well as I said it's like anything. if you eat too much of it, or just have a generally shitty diet, it's gonna be deleterious. but it's not like you have to go out of your way to avoid it either.

    I think it's an economic issue for a lot of people - not just talking about young, (at least relatively) affluent, health-conscious &/or vegan types - who depend on soy as a cheap protein source. ditto textured vegetable protein.

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    true but legumes, whole grains, and even dark greens have more than enough protein, all of which are usually cheaper than soy or textured vegetable supplements.

    the protein craze is out of hand, anyways, it is massively overemphasized in nutritional discourses.

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    Vegans and veggies do have to pay some attention to getting enough protein. I suppose the protein craze you mean is stuff like Atkins? But yes, lots of other sources of cheapish protein.

    I mostly just use soy milk, it's the best alternative to cow-juice I know of, tastes nice on my coffee. That's the majority of my soy intake, it's nothing excessive at all.

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    "There's some talk about a distinction between fermented and un-fermented soy. The suggestion being that most of the soy consumed in China and other places where it's been used for a long time tends to be fermented, which does not retain the same chemicals. That's what 'they' say anyway."
    This is something I hear a lot too. I can't say I give too much of a fuck either way though to be honest.

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    I would give a fuck, or at least avoid the stuff if I thought there was much to it.

    The article I linked above (in Men's Health magazine) is some quite severe scare-mongering.

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    Sorry, that wasn't very helpful. I'm drunk. But the first bit is true, that is what my flatmate and his Japanese girlfriend always used to say about fermented/unfermented soy and I always naively assumed they had some knid of inside track on this kind of thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by massrock View Post

    There's some talk about a distinction between fermented and un-fermented soy. The suggestion being that most of the soy consumed in China and other places where it's been used for a long time tends to be fermented, which does not retain the same chemicals. That's what 'they' say anyway.
    as long as the super fermented pickled tofu is ok i'm happy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by massrock View Post
    I mostly just use soy milk, it's the best alternative to cow-juice I know of...
    If you were to actually juice a cow, you would not get milk. Well, some of it might be milk. But most of it wouldn't.



    (Also, is soya milk particularly similar to real milk? Because in that article it says the guy uses it as a "thirst quencher" in the "Texas heat". From my experience, milk is the last thing you'd use to quench your thirst in severe heat - Phlegm City, here we come!)
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