Iranian democracy

craner

craner

Beast of Burden
Erm, based on the term not really existing until it was used (initially, I think, by themselves, later as mockery) to characterise pro-war elements of the left chatterati. Those last few words are far more defining than whether or not you hang out with Oliver Kamm.
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Eh? What are you on about? I was refering to this:

what would this achieve, other than making it easier for the theocracy to portray a democratic uprising as the work of the great satan?
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C

crackerjack

Well-known member
Anyway, more important matters

Mousavi seems to be calling off the demo for security reasons - since it was one hour after the pro-Ahmad. one and in the same spot, it's probably for the best.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Think it's happened anyway, if I'm reading the Tweets right.

3pm:
Tens of thousands of people have now gathered outside the IRIB, the headquarters of the state broadcasters, according to our man in Tehran who just phoned in from the rally.

He contrasts the police's handling of the opposition protest with the pro-government march on nearby North Valiasr Streets. Ahmadinejad's supporters have been ushered along peacefully, whereas Mousavi's supporters have faced hostility from the police and assertions that the protest is illegal.

There are reports of 2,000 police or Basij at the opposition rally.
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Regime hitting back: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2009/jun/16/iran-uprising
 
F

four_five_one

Infinition
"# They are filtering everything! Gmail is blocked now!about 1 hour ago from web "

(from the change_for_Iran twitter) -- they can block Gmail but not Twitter? Or maybe they don't know about Twitter yet...
 
F

four_five_one

Infinition
"Could Iran Shut Down Twitter?

Publius thinks so:
[Tweets are] essentially being sent to "middlemen" proxy servers -- which, in turn, allows the information to pass "in disguise" through the filter. It's like a digital Underground Railroad...But here's the thing -- they're only getting through because Iran has (for now) left its networks open, even though the government has apparently tried to limit bandwidth to prevent videos and pictures from getting out."

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/06/could-iran-shut-down-twitter.html
 
F

four_five_one

Infinition
This Change_For_Iran feed is shocking:

"there is no need to hide their names anymore Mobina Ehtrami, Fateme Borati, Kasra Sharafi, Kambiz Shoaee & Mohsen Imani; all killed by ansar"
 
F

four_five_one

Infinition
The plus point is that now the efficacy of the global communication network has been proven, even if nothing comes of this right now - which looks likely - alliances have been formed, and pathways alighted for sustained emancipatory pressure; which is the major difference between this and say Tienanmen Square, or the monks protesting in Burma, etc...
 
craner

craner

Beast of Burden
Burns was a Condi man, not the same thing. He would be pretty insulted to be called a Bush boy, no doubt.
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
first off thanks to everyone (esp. Vimothy) staying right on top of all this.

a couple things from linked articles that I found esp. on point:

from the NYT Op-Ed, this also reminds me of the only experience I have with anything even remotely similar, which has been in Mexico:
“The bottom line right now is whose violence threshold is higher? How much are the hard-liners willing to inflict to suppress the population and tell yet another generation to shut up? And how much are Moussavi and his supporters willing to stand to fulfill their dreams? It sounds so inhuman, but that’s what it comes down to.
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some dude from Stratfor on why an Ahmadinejad victory is plausible - tho much of that thinking has been either refuted or challenged in various articles linked in this thread, notably by Juan Cole & also that New Yorker piece by Laura Secor. to wit:

Iran has a traditional and a modern lower class, a traditional and a modern middle class, even a traditional and a modern élite. The new generation of activists (students, democrats, feminists, journalists) comes largely from the traditional lower middle class—the same demographic that brought us the Islamic Revolution in 1979, and no less authentic a part of the social fabric. To dismiss these Iranians’ aspirations as the vain fancies of the isolated rich is insulting and misguided. Those élite North Tehranis have not been the ones populating rallies and prison cells. That work has been done by those whose lives are difficult and dangerous enough to feel that change is urgent at any price. And if there is a hard core of Iranian activists who will remain in Tehran’s mean streets in the days or weeks or months ahead, it will most certainly not be one comprised entirely of the well-heeled few.
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padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
four_five_one said:
The plus point is that now the efficacy of the global communication network has been proven, even if nothing comes of this right now - which looks likely - alliances have been formed, and pathways alighted for sustained emancipatory pressure; which is the major difference between this and say Tienanmen Square, or the monks protesting in Burma, etc...
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definitely a world away from Tienanmen. but "the efficacy of the global communication network has been proven" - I dunno. that it's impossible to stop the flow of information, yes - but that has always been true. information moves much faster now, of course. on the other hand I think it's also shown - & this isn't the first time either - that the flow of information, absent of something concrete behind it (organization, weapons, whatever) has its limits.

"alliances" & "pathways alighted" - I'm sorry to be skeptical but what, exactly? not that they don't exist, but I think it's very easy to toss around phrases. happy to be proven wrong, as always.
 
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