Martin Dust
Techno Zen Master
It wasn't that loaded (with worms) Peter, it just seemed a bit, well, Alan Partridge
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It wasn't that loaded (with worms) Peter, it just seemed a bit, well, Alan Partridge
Woebot
Well-known member
yeah well i ought to restrict some of my comments about the NME because i haven't picked it up in a while - BUT i imagine it's central plank is still white boys with guitars.
me and my hauntology mates, tee hee. happy to oblige.
but actually although simon and karl are just mucking around actually i see it as a kind of serious topic - for me it's about kind of examining what kind of person i actually and truthfully am.
sure. and that recent nicky siano compilation is a good example. actually at that point r'n'b hadn't really splintered off from rock. there's a pretty good case for disco being a subsection of rock. the electronics in rock feed into it especially (obviously) kraftwerk but also older things like love sculpture's "sabre dance" (sped up) - really i could go on all day.......
some funk was heavy rock too. actually you have to search pretty hard for early funk tracks that fit in with the 90s shadow-style minimal breaks type thing (and people do.....). a lot of them have squalling guitar all over them which has tended to be expunged. a lot of those james brown tracks even have a lot of heavy guitar. i'm not making an evaluative judgement here - i like the deep minimal funk tracks - and actually sometimes the early funk stuff makes the same mistakes with misunderstanding rock that dance music makes today.
and check some of those crunchy pre-echo-swirling lee perry tracks (ie circa blackboard jungle - named after the rock'n'roll movie) and it's totally black sabbath/led zep
and while we're in total revisionist mode - reynolds was commenting how close something like captain beefheart was to boogie rock - but actually at the end of the day, can are closer to canned heat than karlheinz stockhausen. the whole avant-garde into krautrock thing is massively over-played. neu! is just some bad-ass boogie crew.
one of the most refreshing interviews i read recently again came courtesy of reynolds (in totally wired) it's with david thomas of pere ubu. and actually to simon's credit for publishing it because it comes at the expense of his own non-rock argument. a couple of quotes:
and another
so yeah actually it's even got me wondering about what people call electronic music. afaic taking a very wide 20th/21st century view there's actually very few sorts of music. there's Rock. there's Jazz. there's Classical music. there's Folk.. and that might just about be the sum total.
i would grant Electronic music it's own genre definition but actually what is truly electronic music is a very tiny thing. very few people actually practice electronic music. electronic music is schaeffer/parmegiani (though de natura sonorum might be a rock record) /lamc/some of the nonesuch stuff (though a lot of subotnik's stuff is rock) - if it has a pulse generally it's rock.
techno is generally jazz. reggae is generally jazz (see above for at least one exception). 99% of modern world music is rock - the older stuff is folk. jungle was jazz. hip-hop was rock. disco was rock. most of the stuff that the wire writes about is jazz (still! steve lacy would be delighted) - a very small proportion of the electronic music it covers is actually electronic music. dubstep is rock. grime was rock too. etc.
haha i like the way you and blissblog and your hauntology mates have turned yr blog world into thursday night at the olde english real ale pub lol
me and my hauntology mates, tee hee. happy to oblige.
but actually although simon and karl are just mucking around actually i see it as a kind of serious topic - for me it's about kind of examining what kind of person i actually and truthfully am.
sure. and that recent nicky siano compilation is a good example. actually at that point r'n'b hadn't really splintered off from rock. there's a pretty good case for disco being a subsection of rock. the electronics in rock feed into it especially (obviously) kraftwerk but also older things like love sculpture's "sabre dance" (sped up) - really i could go on all day.......
some funk was heavy rock too. actually you have to search pretty hard for early funk tracks that fit in with the 90s shadow-style minimal breaks type thing (and people do.....). a lot of them have squalling guitar all over them which has tended to be expunged. a lot of those james brown tracks even have a lot of heavy guitar. i'm not making an evaluative judgement here - i like the deep minimal funk tracks - and actually sometimes the early funk stuff makes the same mistakes with misunderstanding rock that dance music makes today.
and check some of those crunchy pre-echo-swirling lee perry tracks (ie circa blackboard jungle - named after the rock'n'roll movie) and it's totally black sabbath/led zep
and while we're in total revisionist mode - reynolds was commenting how close something like captain beefheart was to boogie rock - but actually at the end of the day, can are closer to canned heat than karlheinz stockhausen. the whole avant-garde into krautrock thing is massively over-played. neu! is just some bad-ass boogie crew.
one of the most refreshing interviews i read recently again came courtesy of reynolds (in totally wired) it's with david thomas of pere ubu. and actually to simon's credit for publishing it because it comes at the expense of his own non-rock argument. a couple of quotes:
and another
so yeah actually it's even got me wondering about what people call electronic music. afaic taking a very wide 20th/21st century view there's actually very few sorts of music. there's Rock. there's Jazz. there's Classical music. there's Folk.. and that might just about be the sum total.
i would grant Electronic music it's own genre definition but actually what is truly electronic music is a very tiny thing. very few people actually practice electronic music. electronic music is schaeffer/parmegiani (though de natura sonorum might be a rock record) /lamc/some of the nonesuch stuff (though a lot of subotnik's stuff is rock) - if it has a pulse generally it's rock.
techno is generally jazz. reggae is generally jazz (see above for at least one exception). 99% of modern world music is rock - the older stuff is folk. jungle was jazz. hip-hop was rock. disco was rock. most of the stuff that the wire writes about is jazz (still! steve lacy would be delighted) - a very small proportion of the electronic music it covers is actually electronic music. dubstep is rock. grime was rock too. etc.
Woebot
Well-known member
rock
jazz
folk
classical
though at the end of the day you can call it as you like it which category it falls into. the whole hip-hop is jazz movement is obviously interesting. while detroit techno is generally jazz - cybotron was rock. euro-rave was obviously rock. ardkore was probably rock. etc ad infinitum.
jazz
folk
classical
though at the end of the day you can call it as you like it which category it falls into. the whole hip-hop is jazz movement is obviously interesting. while detroit techno is generally jazz - cybotron was rock. euro-rave was obviously rock. ardkore was probably rock. etc ad infinitum.
you've not mentioned pop/.
todays nme - mia born free - track of the week, crystal castles, guru, dead weather, pendulum factory floor and foals get a look in, and loads of cool namedrop US lo fi cool indie bands - and this is veeerrry funny, kasabian man advertising umbro england shirt, on stage in paris - 'AWAY debuted by Kasabian in Paris' - the kinda boozy man 'big society' indie thats been holding everything back's only real look in in the paper this week.
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Woebot
Well-known member
That is an interesting idea. Care to elaborate?
I never had a very clear-cut position on this matter: I always disliked the idea of constraining artistic music to the classical instruments. But on the other hand, referring to Xenakis as art (or music) is so depressing. There simply should be some better categories to discuss music: pop vs art, electronic vs non-electronic are no valid candidates.
oh come on!
look at the current website:
nice try but no cigar.
the site and paper are kind of separate entities right now i think - the sites much more about aggregation and shopping affiliaties the magazine now behaves in a different way to how it did.
this is their radar mixtape - quite a mixed bunch of things - alot of glofi or whatever it's called - http://www.nme.com/blog/index.php?blog=15&p=8237&more=1&c=1 pretty much like the nme of old in that invents terms like the wire with 'hauntology' and 'hypnagogic pop'
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its a boring idea, why is everything rock?
what would chic have to say about you calling disco a subsection or rock or the disco sucks lot have to say about you calling rock disco?
there are obv places where these things intersect but they're not the same, different will and personel, different setting different technology, different audiences, this is the same idea that zhao had that some old blues song is the same as house music.
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D
droid
Guest
Dont think I buy the reggae = jazz theorem. Its roots are in jazz/R+B, but its basically Jamaican pop music...
Reggae = pop (IMO) Pop = Rock => Reggae = Rock?
Interesting ideas though.
Reggae = pop (IMO) Pop = Rock => Reggae = Rock?
Interesting ideas though.
this is a disingenuously false rephrase of what i said.
i used the 1930s gospel recording, with its insistent 4 on the floor stomp, and steady hand clap on the off beat, to demonstrate the CENTRAL CULTURAL LINEAGE of House music, and its roots in black Chicago spiritual traditions.
i did not say "is the same as".
lol
it wasn't anything of the kind, grow up, its broadly the same concept as matts thats what i'm saying, this is an interesting conversation don't ruin another one please.
when is the beginning and end of rock and jazz and classical - and the start, this is a pretty much attributed from above concept as well, it doesn't take into account any developments, it seems a bit dictatorial - anyway whats the reason for this sudden rock man stuff matt?
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droid
Guest
So you're saying that the roots of house music come ultimately from Scottish Presbyterians?
http://www.willieruff.com/linesinging.html
The interesting thing about this categorisation in classical, rock, folk & jazz is that they seem to refer to different types of experience .
Maybe I misunderstood Woebot, but it's like most electronic music should be considered rock, because it aims for a similar, strongly bodily experience (action, exaltation, dancing, etc). Classical is more about contemplation, while folk is mostly about harmony (with oneself, one's tradition or whatever). Jazz is a bit trickier to ascribe an experience to though.
Maybe I misunderstood Woebot, but it's like most electronic music should be considered rock, because it aims for a similar, strongly bodily experience (action, exaltation, dancing, etc). Classical is more about contemplation, while folk is mostly about harmony (with oneself, one's tradition or whatever). Jazz is a bit trickier to ascribe an experience to though.
but that doesn't work at all either.